I'd call a vote of either: everyone from our game, or from the whole group. Vote on which player played the best and should move on

I think ez has a good idea, I would like to see a vote from the players of this game, on who they think should move on between ez and tobi.

If you think, other persons could decide this without knowing our diplomacy we could do it this way. I think, only the players in our game should decide because they know at least something.
A solution ... :-)

I think Butter should PM everyone from the game and get their response. and then tell us

Tobi - yes, I CAN say turkey played a better game. TBH, it doesn't matter AT ALL whether ez would have gotten stabbed if he was France. The point is, you played a bad gamwe and nleft yourself wide open to a stab. Simply put: bad play. Turkey did not. End of discussion in my view.

Look at it this way: I was austria. Yet I played a great game and managed to win. Does it matter that if I was Russia or Germany or Italy that I maybe would have played differently and not let Austria solo? No it doesn't fact is, they were all eliminated and thus, played a fairly poor game.

Same goes for your game. You capitalized on a CIVIL DISORDER to make big gains. That's hardly "good" quality play. Its LUCK (which you so ironically were saying only Turkey had when germany stabbed you), pure and simple. Then, you allied with germany (ok, that's good I guess, hardly "qualityN since most people make alliances), and then proceed to get stabbed by him. Simply put, poor play. It doesn't matter one bit whether turkey would have gotten stabbed if he was france. Why? Because he wasn't france.

My vote goes heavily to EZ. I would call foul if it went the other way.

Assuming that tobi and ez wish to vote for themselves, I have 4 total votes in and it is a tie... I am waiting for the other 3(although i don't expect to get one from England)...

I agree to your point, that I haven't played the best game that was possible. I know that I trusted too much in the German. Yes, you're right.
And I was stupid that I didn't take my chance in the last round to hold Brest, thinking that I was in next round anyway, thinking that the German could take only the SCs he needed for a win, that he could had made a mistake in orders and I would be in a better position next turn. I thought about this orders to hold Brest and decided with bad concentration: Well, I'll be in next round anyway.
If I hadn't been so stupid at that point, I would have been in next round anyway (even if I played poor) and everything would have been fine.
So it's my fault. If you all say, that ez should be in next round, I accept it and learn for future. And I don't think that I will enter a tournament where other players decide over gameplay because I'm sure that it's difficult to decide this correctly and in addition because diplomacy isn't always decided by gameplay. But at the moment this are the rules and I accepted them when I entered this tournament.

Tobi - I'm curious. How would YOU solve this dilemna if you were in charge? What ruke would you have made? Because don't you think its unfair that a player could advance just by the dumb luck of a neighboring CD and easy SCs?

Butter - just pick. The rules state you'll pick, not a vote.

drano- I am appeasing both ez and tobi here by letting the people that THEY played with and against vote...

My personal opinion is that Turkey had harder way throughout the game, while France made some critical strategic mistakes. Nevertheless they are both eager to play so I suggest to give my place in the finals to one of them.

How is it a reflection on "luck" that Turkey never had an ally who could stab him, where France did? Turkey picked an ally that he knew would be tied up: Russia fights Germany after the carving up of Austria, Austria doesn't (necessarily) do likewise, and Germany needed a target after England fell. Turkey's decision is just as easily a reflection on sound strategic thinking.

Dejan we are not going to boot you out so they can play. we are going to stick to what we said, and decide who gets second. I am still waiting to hear from 2 people(although I still don't expect to hear from England)...

Well even without England's vote, it's a 4-2 vote in favor of ez moving on...

Ok. So I'm out. Hopefully I can watch an exciting final round. :-)

haha

I was England, I never got a PM :(

unless your talking about the other england. in which case never mind. LET TOBI PLAY

this is blasphemy. tobi should be allowed in. he won the tiebreaker

No he didn't mongoose. The tiebreaker was SC count at games end, not SC count 3 years before games end. They were tied at games end.

This is why I proposed better tie breaking rules.

My personal opinion is that "style points" should not determine the outcome. This is not figure skating, this is warfare. :)

I do think it odd that one of the tiebreakers would be subjective in nature. It's like the BCS :p

Hey -- make sure you post the link to the final game one it's set up for those of us losers who want to watch!

what system would you prefer Devonian?

@Ezpickins: This is what I posted on Sept 15 as a proposal for tiebreaking:

"top 2 players per game:
1. win>draw>survive>defeat>abandon
2. SC's at end of game
3. Of those still tied, the first one to reach and maintain that SC count.
4. Butterhead will listen to arguments from all 21 players that do so wish to state an opinion on the matter, and then will make the final decision based off of said arguments.

One wildcard selected from all remaining after top 2, using the same tiebreaker rules."

-----

Please keep in mind that I do not necessarily think this is the "best" tiebreaking criteria. But it is what I proposed, and I think it is what Butterhead used to initially give the spot to tobi. But, there was no discussion on it, and from my perspective, it was never adopted as the official tiebreaking criteria.

After thinking about it though, I would think another tiebreaking criteria could be added that would make it better. Something along the lines of "The player who grows to the final tie position > the player who shrank to the final tie position" This rule would be placed between #2 and 3. (this rule would give it to you, Ez)

Those rules seem good to me.

I think so. But they should be for future games. For this game, the official tiebreaker is hearing from all players with Butterhead making a final decision... I think.

It was decided that ez would advance, and tobi has accepted this. if drano would please start the game up and invite the 6 other players...

As its already Tuesday, I have taken the liberty of.deciding to delay the game start until after Thanksgiving, a major US holiday during which I, and possibly other US players will likely.be unavailable. It makes more sense to.just delay the start insead of trying to guarantee a pause a day into the game.

I agree with Drano.