Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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butterhead (975 D)
21 May 12 UTC
(+10)
Advertise your NON-live games here!
In an effort to compromise the pro-ads versus anti-ads for games: Post here for your non-live games to cut down on the number of ads but still advertise games. Post game link, WTA or PPSC, and the bet. Note: this doesn't count for special rules games.
2246 replies
Open
WWII Tournament
I would like to start a tournament. I've seen the Known World and 1v1 tournaments, and those are great fun. So why not apply it to World War II? I'm still working out the details, but I'll post some details.
160 replies
Open
Argentinean Empire (1068 D)
17 Jan 18 UTC
(+4)
Cold War Tournament
I am looking to start a rated Cold War tournament consisting of group and knockout stages. Groups of 4 will face each other twice, once as each country. The top two (or three, pending interest) from each group will move on to the knockout stage, with each matchup lasting two games. Users will play as each country once. If tied 1-1, an additional two games are played until a winner is determined.
54 replies
Open
Safari (1549 D (B))
05 Jan 18 UTC
(+1)
Austrian Succession: New and Improved
After four years, War of Austrian Succession is nearing completion! Please come help test it so that I can perfect the balance.
It would be very helpful if we could have no NMRs for the first few phases. http://lab.diplomail.ru/board.php?gameID=64
19 replies
Open
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
24 Jan 18 UTC
(+1)
New Variant: Dawn of the Enlightenment
It is on a temporary homepage, http://davidecohen.wixsite.com/diplomiscellany, since I am having a bit of trouble editing my main website. Please take a look. I would love to get comments, suggestions and criticism.
34 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
Tue 13 Feb UTC
(+3)
New mega-variant: Divided states....
Here comes our largest variant ever: Divided States.
A variant for 50 players!! With 693 territories (270 land, 236 coast, and 187 sea territories).
44 replies
Open
gman314 (1016 D)
12 Mar 11 UTC
(+18)
Winning
Oli won.
On Imperial Civilization's off-topic thread (link inside), there was a brief stint of Second to Last Person to Post Wins. Now that the thread is closed, Oli won.
6376 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
Thu 06 PM UTC
Western World 901 Bug?
I am in a gunboat and when I try to see the past orders it tells me there is a bug.

http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=33658
3 replies
Open
Argentinean Empire (1068 D)
23 Jan 18 UTC
(+2)
Prove your historical knowledge!
Since some discrepancies arose from the Winning thread, (what else is new?) here we go. We start with a question, and the person that correctly answers it posts a question of their own, and it continues.
158 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
Sat 10 Feb UTC
(+1)
RSS feed for Notifications (discussion)
Hi everyone.
Don't miss PMs or game-notifications with your personal RSS-feed.
In your settings-page you can create a unique link that updates with your "Notices"-tab on your homescreen.

Feel free to post ideas for improvements or suggestions.
What's your favorite RSS-client for your platform of choice?
14 replies
Open
michael_b (957 D)
12 Aug 17 UTC
Question: Adding Variant(s)
Please see reply.
57 replies
Open
Halt (1381 D)
Sat 10 Feb UTC
Can't send press during build phase?
Hi, during one of my games, I seem to not be able to send press during build phase? I have been away from the site for a few years, so is this a new feature/rule I'm unaware of or is there something wrong with the game I'm in?

gameID=33649
2 replies
Open
nopunin10did (987 D)
22 Jan 18 UTC
Email notifications?
Does vDiplomacy not have an option to send email notifications upon important game events?

I just recently set up a game, then came back to check on it a couple days later only to find that I'd NMR'd it without even knowing. I couldn't find anything in my email, even in Spam or Trash.
15 replies
Open
Enriador (1298 D)
Wed 07 Feb UTC
WTA vs Draw-Disvaluated Scoring
What about adding Draw-Disvaluated Scoring to vDip?

It's a mix of Calhamer Scoring (aka Winner-Takes-All) with Draw-Zero Scoring, and has the fortunate effect of pushing players towards a solo unless a draw is absolutely necessary. Solos work like in WTA, but draws are different.
22 replies
Open
Grahamso1 (1560 D)
Mon 05 Feb UTC
PPSC vs SoS
I couldn’t find the answer in Help.
I know PPSC means in a solo the points are allocated based on supply centre count while in a draw it reverts to an equal split of points like DSS/WTA
For SoS over on WebDip, in a draw the points are allocated on a sum of Squares principle. But Help section doesn’t say what happens in a solo. Same method or reverts to winner takes all? I’m assuming SoS whether draw or solo but checking
Thanks
ScubaSteve (1527 D)
Mon 05 Feb UTC
(+1)
SoS gives all points to the winner. Just like God intended. At least that is what I have been assuming all this time. Yikes. What if I am wrong?
tantrumizer (1852 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
(+1)
You are not wrong. Best regards, God's Representative

SoS is WTA for a solo.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2501 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
(+1)
The Sum of Squares scoring system is one designed for FTF tournaments where a form a measurement of performance across multiple players and boards is necessary on Sunday afternnoons before players rush off to the airports. It's not a good tool for scoring these round robin tournaments so popular at VDip, where you have an excellent measure of performance across each position on the map over the life of the competition. There's no need to accelerate the scoring for Sunday afternoon since the events stretch out for months at their own pace. The dangers of SoS scoring is the wave of thrown solos as the greed factor kicks in exponentially to rub out nations that might otherwise participate in a strategic draw. We've seen SoS destroy the Known World Tournament with just such an example. We also saw it lead a game to be stretched out for 8 more months just to kill a single one supply center nation. Sum of Square has its's usefulness in FTF tournaments, but here it's like using a chainsaw to clip a rose bush.
nopunin10did (987 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
@RUFFHAUS

I'm a tad confused. In the example you give, the points for that 1-center power would be almost zero under an SoS system. It's when all survivors share draws equally that there's more incentive to wipe out the little guys.
ScubaSteve (1527 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
Herr Haus is correct. Of course, perhaps having tourney games be anonymous might be a less elegant but cleaner solution?
d-ice (1682 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
(+1)
The main benefit of SoS, C-diplo and most other designed scoring systems is when playing “short games” tourneys (i.e. with a fixed end year, just like Ftf tourneys often are). WTA makes more sense in games where these limits do not apply. PPSC never makes sense. Just my two rupees.
nopunin10did (987 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
Considering that Max Turns is an option when setting up a game, I'm surprised that SoS or something along those lines isn't at least available in that case.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
Tue 06 Feb UTC
(+1)
SoS is still not a thing, because I did not bother to code this for our vDip-rating.
nopunin10did (987 D)
Tue 06 Feb UTC
That’s as good a reason as any :-)
Captainmeme (1399 D Mod (B))
Wed 07 Feb UTC
(+1)
SoS isn't great for variants because the amount it awards players varies wildly depending on the number of SCs on the map. If the SC count is high, large players will be rewarded a huge percentage of the points, while players who make it into the draw on 4 or 5 centers will be given practically nothing for their survival.

I'd definitely disagree with people saying it's specialised for FTF - it actually solves a lot of endgame issues in online Diplomacy too, taking away the choice players often have to make between pursuing a solo or eliminating players for a smaller draw by making the draw reward a player for how close they were to achieving the solo, while still making sure the solo is worth a large amount more than any draw and losing is worth nothing (so avoiding the PPSC problems). However, it *is* specialised for the classic, 34 center variant, so it's not really an appropriate scoring system for vDip.
nopunin10did (987 D)
Wed 07 Feb UTC
Another option, other than SoS, is a rank-based system. C-Diplo is one option, though the Carnage system is gaining a lot of popularity in Face-to-Face.

A modified form of Carnage could potentially work here, and it would work for variants as well.

In a solo, the winner still gets all the points.

All draws are DIAS, but you don't share in the draw equally. Instead of your points being based solely on SC counts, they're based on your rank in comparison to other players.

Rank is determined by final SC count, or for eliminated players, how long you survived (the longer the better).

In a standard 7-player match:
7000 for 1st
6000 for 2nd
5000 for 3rd
4000 for 4th
3000 for 5th
2000 for 6th
1000 for 7th

Players that tie for rank split the points for all applicable ranks. Two players tie for first, for example would get 6500 points each. The next-highest player would then be ranked third.

This point value would then be trivially converted into vDip points as (YourPoints / AllPointsAwarded). In a seven-player match, this means the board-topper would received about as many points as what they'd get in a four-player draw.

(A slight modification to this system can give 0 points to the last-ranked player and 1000 fewer to everyone else, though generally some points are allocated to last place for a non-solo scenario as a small incentive not to throw the match, assuming that player hasn't yet been eliminated. Making such a modification increases the % of final points held by those in top ranks.)

This system can easily expand to adjust to the number of players. While true Carnage also grants one point each per SC held at game's end (with all 34 granted to the winner of a solo), this is really only used as a tournament tiebreaker, and it would have less value here.

The pluses of this system:
- It encourages players to weigh the relative merits of holding a firm stalemate line versus jockeying for position. As such, it can add some unpredictability to the late game.
- It discourages draw-whittling, as it's unlikely to make an enormous impact on the final score whether a single power with 1-2 SC's remains on the map.
- There's a more significant difference between the points an individual can receive in a solo versus the best one can receive in a draw.

The minuses of the system:
- Because draws aren't shared equally, to some this feels like a betrayal of the original rules.
- While I personally see the impact on the endgame as a positive, it can change the character of the typical stalemate-line staring-match, which some may object to.
- After being eliminated, your eventual final score is dependent on factors that you no longer have any influence on. If the game ends in a draw, you may get points; if it ends in a solo, you get nothing. Modifications to this system can adjust for this situation, though they could bring back the emphasis on draw-whittling in a zero-sum environment such as this.
Enriador (1298 D)
Wed 07 Feb UTC
@Captainmeme

"However, it *is* specialised for the classic, 34 center variant, so it's not really an appropriate scoring system for vDip."

Isn't Classic the most played non-2 players map? Introducing SoS for Classic alone is arguably worth it even if some variants would be corrupted by it.

All it takes is a "Note: Sum-of-Squares scoring should be applied to Classic only" in the game creation screen and voi-a-la. It's technically possible to make 7 points game be PPSC and 500 points timed games be WTA, but the community is more than capable of avoiding these weird variant/score combinations.
zurn (1178 D)
Wed 07 Feb UTC
The points for an eliminated player in the Carnage system seems problematic to me. What about ranking all players regardless of result, doubling the point for a solo winner, and halving them for an eliminated player?

Or is the goal of the carnage system to increase the odds of a solo and encourage sniping at people who aren't in the lead but might overtake you?
nopunin10did (987 D)
Fri 09 Feb UTC
@zurn

My understanding is that the goal of the Carnage system is indeed to increase the odds of a solo (and to ensure there's a significant difference in points between a solo and the best you can receive in a win). It's also intended to reduce the odds that players are eliminated just for the sake of removing them from the draw size, rather than for strategic purposes.

As for sniping, I believe the idea is that in a typical "stop the solo!" scenario, players are encouraged to weigh the relative benefits of jockeying for position versus holding the line. If you think you can risk a little shakeup in the status quo and still block the solo, that sniping could be beneficial.

Like C-Diplo and other rank-based systems, it's also built to work well in scenarios where the game has to have a defined endpoint. Most Carnage-based tournaments, to my understanding, allow games to go on as long as they need to, but there's often at least one round that has to have a clock limit (if not a year limit) for practical reasons.

The modifications you mention (particularly for reducing points of an eliminated rank) actually could work well in a non-zero-sum environment. I'm running a variant tournament that uses a similar system to tie together five _very_ different variants (http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=56099). I would NOT recommend this exact system outside the specific tournament setting it was build for, however.

A rank-based system where eliminated players lose more points is theoretically possible, I imagine, but the mathematics of getting it to work in a zero-sum environment are particularly difficult. A big piece of it all comes down to whether a solo should take 100% of the points; in a controlled tournament, this isn't as important, but in an asynchronous environment, it's pretty vital.


14 replies
Technostar (1082 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
"Divided States" - New variant in progress
"Divided States" is a variant where every US state is a country. I am looking for advice about it. See reply for details.
61 replies
Open
tobi1 (1496 D Mod (B))
Sat 03 Feb UTC
(+2)
Improvement suggestions?
I am looking to give some love to my main coding contributions to vdip, namely the interactive map and the TSR in Colonial Diplomacy. Do you have any wishes, improvement suggestions, issues or bug reports with these implementations?
7 replies
Open
Greatdjenkins (1021 D)
30 Jan 18 UTC
you hippies whats in da hood
come at me bro, when people see u they be like FATYYYYYYYY
7 replies
Open
Devonian (1882 D)
29 Jun 15 UTC
(+12)
1v1 Tournament Rules, Rankings, and Challenges
Official Rules for 1v1 Ladder Tournament
1488 replies
Open
Just a heads up...
I'm headed to our cabin for a week tomorrow. I'll still get internet on the phone when we head into town for dinner each night, but my communication may be lacking in game on any press games.
5 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1652 D (B) (B))
02 Sep 16 UTC
(+7)
New podcast for online Dip games
Hi everyone

Kaner and I have started a podcast about playing Diplomacy online....
162 replies
Open
CCR (1699 D)
12 Dec 17 UTC
A Reconquista variant
http://www.variantbank.org/results/rules/i/iberian.htm
28 replies
Open
GOD (1685 D Mod (B))
27 Jan 18 UTC
Looking for Callifornians
I'm currently travelling through California for a good month and wondered if there's any players out here who'd like to meet or maybe even host me?
2 replies
Open
Greatdjenkins (1021 D)
22 Jan 18 UTC
Ambassidor is a crybaby
ambassidor, and argentinaian empire looooooooooove fluttershy and dora, although i think argentianian empire might like boots ( doras pet monkey, hes a boy )
9 replies
Open
Brenden (967 D)
25 Jan 18 UTC
call me
hey girl
2 replies
Open
Dr. Recommended (1570 D Mod (B))
24 Dec 16 UTC
(+2)
Variant Tournaments
I've really enjoyed playing variant-specific tournaments such as the Known World 15x15 currently underway.
621 replies
Open
Flame (1058 D (B))
09 Jan 18 UTC
Western Known World 901
Please join the testgame
http://lab.diplomail.ru/board.php?gameID=67
4 replies
Open
kaner406 (1479 D Mod (B) (B))
19 Jan 18 UTC
(+1)
Mod announcement
Please join us in welcoming gopher to our mod-team. We promise not to let him use his newfound powers to win the "winning" thread.
8 replies
Open
Temasek22 (1192 D)
18 Jan 18 UTC
Help
I can’t login for the next few days. Would appreciate if anyone can help step in
0 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1652 D (B) (B))
27 Oct 17 UTC
1066 Tournament
As discussed in episode 23 of the Diplomacy Games podcast I'm thinking of putting together a 1066 tournament. Interested takers?
132 replies
Open
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