Small change, big difference. If a clipper is dislodged in the Pirates variant it can only retreat to an adjacent territory. It does no longer move two places when retreating. This is meant to simulate the clipper being defeated and being damaged it can't sail as far in the retreat phase.

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Page 128 of 129
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Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
"Divided States" - New variant in progress
"Divided States" is a variant where every US state is a country. I am looking for advice about it. See reply for details.
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
The board:
http://i.imgur.com/SU34vlq.png

I am currently working on a higher resolution version of the map and adding names to the map.

Further details: Each state starts in control of all SCs within their borders with a + (the state capital) or a bullseye. All other SCs start as neutral, even if they are within the borders of a state.

The ocean and the Great Lakes are split into Sealanes, which obey the same rules as sealanes in the Mars and WW4: Sealanes maps.

Fleets can move along rivers, though the rivers themselves are not territories.

There are 4 sealanes and one normal territory that appear on different parts of the map. NW Passage, NWP N., and NWP S. appear in the Arctic Ocean, Labrador Channel, and James Bay. The Panama Canal, PNC N., and PNC S. appear at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean. Western Pacific, WPC NE., WPC NW., Northeastern Pacific NW, NEP NE, and British Colombia appear both in the Alaska panel and the main panel. Hawaiian sealanes behave as they appear.
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
States start with a different number of SCs based on their votes in the Electoral College. States with 3-4 votes start with 2 SC, states with 5-19 start with 3, 20-29 start with 4, and 30+ start with 5.

Because states with only 2 SCs start with a huge disadvantage, they will annex all occupied SCs after the first spring turn and get an additional build phase in the summer of the first year. This way, they will have 3-4 units during the fall turn like the rest of the nations.

All islands with a border in the water are centers at sea and can be convoyed through.

The Canadian and Mexican governments collapsed with the fall of the US, though partisan groups and drug lords were able to establish local control. Some SCs in Canada and Mexico (basically any more than 2 territories away from a starting SC) will have standing armies.
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
Oh, and I almost forgot:

The game is build anywhere and starts with a build phase, so nations can choose what to build.

There are a few strait crossings throughout the map marked with a maroon bridge. Both armies and fleets can use these crossings and there is no penalty for using them.

The only point on the map where 4 territories meet (more obvious on the large map) is the Four Corners monument. At this spot, you CAN move diagonally (from Arizona to Colorado and from Utah to New Mexico).
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
Since this is such a large map, I would highly appreciate feedback regarding its gameplay and balance as well as technical advice for how to make this map work.
Captainmeme (1628 D Mod (B))
03 Sep 17 UTC
You'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge of US geography...

There's a state just east of California which appears to have no HSCs. Is that intentional?
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
Thank you for spotting that. Nevada's supposed to have home SCs at Carson City (the southernmost of the two SCs in the west), Las Vegas (the northernmost of the two in the south), and Elko (in the northeast). I'll be sure to add that.
jason4747 (883 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
It's a fantastic idea. Great map. I recommend you reduce the right and left - shrink it downs some. I think there will be a lot less desire or use for fleets, unless you add a lot more navigable rivers. So, a suggestion, cut out the Canadian areas easy of Continential New Brunswick, and consider shrinking Canada and maybe (perish the thought I know) just doing the lower 48. It's mostly a continental army game anyway. Practically, Fleets on the rivers will not be able to attack inland.

That or consider consolidating and making a lot less sea spaces. I'm not sure that will help - the "Sea Lanes" definitely does though.
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
When designing the map, the potential for an early stalemate, especially in New England, was always a concern for me. Sealanes help to get around that by creating extra adjacent territories, while more ocean increases the area you have to cover to create a stalemate and thus delays their formation, at least along the coasts.

You bring up a good point about rivers, though. As Fall of the American Empire shows, the rivers are just about useless in the Mississippi watershed and only truly useful around the Great Lakes. In addition, I was rather constrained by only sticking with navigable waterways (according to this map: http://www.stlgateway.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/national_waterways_lg.jpg), though lighter craft could probably make it much farther up a river.

Perhaps I could make rivers more useful by giving fleets a speed boost along them - perhaps they could travel two spaces at once along a river instead of just one. Combine that with extra navigable rivers (Rio Grande, Colorado, Yellowstone, Snake, Arkansas) and fleets would be significantly more viable farther inland.

Would this help make fleets more useful?
You could also implement Known World's transform feature, allowing armies to become fleets and vice versa.
What did you name the Oregon territories? Asking for an Oregonian friend....
Technostar (1293 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
Top row: Portland, Cascades, Colombia Plateau
Middle two: Salem, Bend
Bottom row: Klamath Mtns, Medford, Harney Basin
The lovely map where I got the names: http://www.worldatlas.com/img/areamap/96a71d87e6aa8ec01cf6eb51a27be933.gif

As for the transform option, perhaps that may be the better (and easier) choice. I would keep the Mississippi river valley as an option if I did that, though it wouldn't be as necessary to add the extra rivers.
michael_b (971 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
This is amazing. I would love to follow the progress on this one!
Great job Technostar, I've always had in the back of my mind a variant where you have each player playing a US state.

My one and only concern is your ability to get 50 players to sign up. We see how hard it is with WWIV.

I just hope the compelling nature of the game (and dare I say state parochialisms of some of our players) will get enough sign ups.
Technostar (1293 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
Thank you! It's always been a project in the back of my mind as well, so I decided to do it with what little of summer vacation I have left.

I'm sure games of this will be sparse, but spectacular when they do happen. Perhaps you could set up a Choose Your Country game so people could pick their state. I'd call it Statriotism.

I also have a progress report:
https://i.imgur.com/K6BkGNn.png
The large map is complete and I will now be adding in names and cataloging all the territories on the board.
ubercacher16 (1239 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
It is about time someone made a map like this.
Actually one other thing. I remember in one of our podcasts Kaner was going on about a limit to the number of territories. I thought it might be 256.

Technostar - have you checked with Oli on whether the number of territories would be possible?
BobRoss (1653 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
This variant looks great. Awesome job, Technostar! Hope it could be implemented in the near future :-)
Captainmeme (1628 D Mod (B))
04 Sep 17 UTC
"Because states with only 2 SCs start with a huge disadvantage, they will annex all occupied SCs after the first spring turn and get an additional build phase in the summer of the first year. This way, they will have 3-4 units during the fall turn like the rest of the nations."

I should point out that this rule will be very hard to implement. I'd recommend trying to find some alternative solution...
CCR (1759 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
When simulating reality diminishes playability, chose the latter.
Make the smaller states playable, and the big guys smaller:
instead of the 2 to 5 starting units range, make them 3 or 4 only.
Technostar (1293 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
Captain and CCR, you make good points. Aside from Rhode Island and Vermont, all states have at least 3 SCs in their borders. I may have to shift around Rhode Island's borders to include Martha's Vineyard, however. It's such a tiny state that anything else would be too small even on the large map.
Technostar (1293 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
Amby, I'm checking with Kaner to find out how he did WW4. 256 is not a hard limit per map, though it needs some trickery to get around.
ScubaSteve (1194 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
I don't know if we could ever get such a big game going but that looks so good! So, so, so so very good!
Technostar (1293 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
There are only 14 more players in this than in WW4. Chances are we could find enough players for a game.

As I'm doing names and acronyms, what's really bugging me is how unoriginal US place names are. I'm having to include the state in the name for places like Charleston (big city in South Carolina and capital of West Virginia), Bloomington (fairly large city in both Illinois and Indiana), Augusta, and Columbus (the last two are both large cities in Georgia that have the same name as the capitals of Maine and Ohio).
mouse (1725 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
Is New Orleans the only province crossed, rather than bordered, by a river, or is there a 4-way corner between it, Baton Rouge, and the two provinces on the other side of the river?
Technostar (1293 D)
04 Sep 17 UTC
You're correct, New Orleans is the only province crossed by a river. I only included this because there are 3 provinces that take you out of the Mississippi River system into the Gulf of Mexico already. I'll be sure to clarify that by placing the name across the Mississippi river there.

Fun fact: The Atchafalaya River (try saying that 3 times fast) is actually the steeper route down to the Gulf of Mexico, not the current path of the Mississippi river. The only thing keeping the Mississippi on its current path is a dam maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers.
ubercacher16 (1239 D)
05 Sep 17 UTC
Dustin doesn't care about fun facts!
Technostar (1293 D)
06 Sep 17 UTC
I have finished assigning names to the provinces. I will now be going through them and giving them unique abbreviations, then adding them to the maps. Creating the color map for PHP will not take too long after that, then I'll move it to the Russian lab for development.

Unfortunately, school started for me yesterday, so progress will be a bit slower.
ScubaSteve (1194 D)
07 Sep 17 UTC
Why do you tease us so, Technostar?

WHY???
Technostar (1293 D)
10 Sep 17 UTC
Alas, I have a life outside of Diplomacy. But here's a progress report:

https://i.imgur.com/Rkx0gD5.png

I am about a third of the way through adding names to the small map (though thankfully the toughest areas are done). I'm glad there's also a large map, otherwise, the game would be just about unreadable. Any advice to improve readability on the small map? Otherwise, I'll proceed as normal and keep adding abbreviations to the map.


For reference, here's the list of provinces and their abbreviations:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tR_-ELS7_yuejImW6XTAO4aHvLlFwVugOfm0FjPuwi8/edit?usp=sharing
michael_b (971 D)
11 Sep 17 UTC
Thats amazing Technostar. You have a ^&*ton of provinces though! I hope we can both get our maps implemented. I will update you on progress of integration.
Technostar (1293 D)
14 Sep 17 UTC
I have finally completed adding abbreviations to the small map. The large map will be easier to add text to because I will not need to change the text scale as much.

https://i.imgur.com/3K5MSAG.png
ScubaSteve (1194 D)
14 Sep 17 UTC
Technostar deserves some kind of prize or award. Everyone that works on these maps does, really. Still, wow. This map really boggles my mind. I'd be so excited to play it.
Technostar (1293 D)
16 Sep 17 UTC
Thank you for all the positive feedback! I am really excited for this project to be playable, which hopefully won't be too long from now! I just finished the large and (relatively) small preview maps. I just need to create the PHP maps before I can get it on a lab.

Small map:
https://i.imgur.com/U1ZEQKo.png

Large map:
https://i.imgur.com/mtbWxyT.png

Before I make the PHP maps and get it on the Russian lab, I would like some feedback regarding balancing. While I have tried to make the map as balanced as possible, there may still be some glaring issues I haven't spotted that will severely harm a nation's performance (such as North Africa in WW4v6.2). To make this less likely, I tried to guarantee that every nation (barring any major tactical errors or year 1 coalitions) can begin year 2 with 5-7 supply centers.

Information about the map:
573 land/island territories
183 sea territories
756 total territories
277 supply centers
158 starting supply centers

The rules as they are:
1. After the chaotic 2020 election, the country fractured into a many-sided civil war. The game begins in Autumn 2020 with a build phase.

2. There are neutral SCs within state boundaries. These are marked with a solid-dot supply center with a neutral box around them.

3. The number of SCs a state starts with are determined by its population (indirectly through # of electoral college votes). States with less than 20 electors start with 3 SCs, states with 20-30 electors start with 4 SCs, and states with more than 30 electors start with 5 SCs.

4. The game is build-anywhere.

5. A unit may be ordered to transform from an army to a fleet or vice versa at any coastal SC (rivers count!) as long as it is not attacked that season.

6. Island territories with their borders at sea are considered coastal territories, but they can also be used to convoy.

7. The oceans and great lakes are divided up into sealanes, which obey the same rules as in the Mars and WW4: Sealanes variants.

8. There are several strait crossings where armies and fleets can move directly between 2 territories that aren't adjacent by land. These are marked with a maroon line.

9. Fleets can move along and across rivers, although the rivers themselves are not considered territories. They do not impede land movement.

10. There are several territories that appear in multiple areas of the map. These are marked with arrow icons between their parts. In addition, YUK is adjacent to SSK and ABT.

11. The Four Corners Monument is the only point on the map where 4 provinces meet. At this point, units CAN move diagonally.

12. When the US govt. collapsed, the Mexican and Canadian governments followed suit. Drug lords and paramilitary groups occupied several of the more distant towns and cities. Any supply centers more than 2 moves away from a home supply center are occupied by a neutral standing army that will disband if it is dislodged.

13. The victory condition is 100 SCs (out of 277).
>Note: I want suggestions on this one. 100 SCs is rather arbitrary and will be incredibly tough to conquer, though fewer SCs might make it so more distant powers have no way of stopping a solo rush.

All other Diplomacy rules apply as normal.
Technostar (1293 D)
16 Sep 17 UTC
Any balancing suggestions are appreciated, so long as they wouldn't take too long to implement.
BlueSage (1070 D)
17 Sep 17 UTC
You could consider adding the Savannah river
G-Man (2397 D)
17 Sep 17 UTC
Holy guacamole -- outrageous! This should be quite a play when it's done.
Technostar - love how this is all coming together. Looks amazing!

I think the 100 SC victory condition is sensible based on the size, but I'm foreshadowing you'll probably get some disgruntled 2nd/3rd/4th place getters after a few games who'll feel a majority should be needed. But you can always change the victory condition later on if the community and yourself support the idea.

Well done!
RUFFHAUS 8 (2501 D)
17 Sep 17 UTC
I would recommend that you set victory conditions at the 50%+1 level unless you have a compelling reason not to. A "victory" has a serious set of consequences in a community so driven by points and ratings. With as many players as this will involve anyone achieving victory on this map should have to earn it. You can always change the victory condition to be lower if players want a shorter game. If it's an arbitrary limit, then why ignore a default principle of the game?
Technostar (1293 D)
17 Sep 17 UTC
Amby and Ruffhaus, thank you for your feedback about it. I based the 100 SC number off of WW4 6.2. So far, not a single person has been able to solo 6.2, though Retillion came within 7 centers of it as Saudi Arabia.

However, WW4 6.2 is a different map with different properties from Divided States. For one, Divided States has 2.72 territories per unit, which makes it much harder to stalemate. WW4 only has 2.14, while Classic has 2.2. You'll need to control a lot more territory to have any shot at a stalemate line. In addition, the transform option removes any possible bottlenecks caused by a shoreline.

I'll set the victory condition to 139 centers and update it if that number proves to be impossible.
Sounds good Technostar.
Technostar (1293 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
Update:
I have finished the PHP maps for this (all 3 of them, I made sure to split them) and created a separate image for the name overlay. I managed to set up a personal instance of vDip to test the map (a difficult feat considering I had no prior experience with PHP), though I was unable to get the variant to load properly so I could use "Edit Map" on it. I've PM'd Kaner about it to see if he could help me set up the custom code, so we'll see if he can help me get it to work. If anyone else knows anything about the coding side of variants, your help would be appreciated.

I also made a few balancing tweaks after a friend and I analyzed the starting positions. The changes include:
- Added a territory SE of Lincoln, Nebraska to prevent having 3 adjacent home SCs
- Changed Indiana's home SC from GAR to FWY and split FWY and TOL with TIP and DAY. This makes it so Indiana no longer starts with 2 home SCs under threat.
- Added BRL (Berlin, NH) as a colored neutral center in northern New Hampshire. This makes Maine and Vermont more likely to come into contact and conflict, giving Maine an extra neighbor.
- Win conditions are now 140 (out of 278).
https://i.imgur.com/nkG61gH.png

There are probably countless other ways I could balance this variant further, though they probably won't be obvious until we can test it. These were just the glaringly obvious flaws - things that would severely cripple a nation's start or unavoidably force nations into an early war.


41 replies
fasces349 (1060 D)
26 Dec 10 UTC
(+16)
Advertise live games here
Like in webdiplo, this thread will be used to help people find live games
3614 replies
Open
BenjaminHester (1027 D)
14 Sep 17 UTC
While I'm going through the long slog of rebuilding Sengoku...
...any interest in a vDip implementation of my most recent, and arguably best balanced variant that rolled off the assembly line before my last long Dip sabbatical?

http://dipwiki.com/index.php?title=Balkans1860
21 replies
Open
BenjaminHester (1027 D)
11 Aug 17 UTC
(+4)
obsolete Sengoku variant
Hi all, designer of Sengoku here. I would love to get the latest version of Sengoku in use on this system, as it is much more balanced. Found here: http://dipwiki.com/index.php?title=Sengoku
Even if the DP system, can't be used, the version at http://nairenvorbeck.angelfire.com/ is still better than the one in use currently. Poor Mori needs a fair chance :-) Anyone willing/able to help me get these implemented?
53 replies
Open
NManock18 (1000 D)
18 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Variants
Are there any tips on software to use for designing a variant? Thanks!
5 replies
Open
faded box (1108 D)
05 Sep 17 UTC
live
anyone up for a live 1v1? u can choose map if u dont like one i got posted
2 replies
Open
Vauban (1068 D)
17 Sep 17 UTC
Colour for Neutral Province
Check below
4 replies
Open
Cometk (1000 D)
15 Sep 17 UTC
Replacing Inactive Member
how does my group go about replacing an inactive member?
1 reply
Open
President Eden (1600 D)
13 Sep 17 UTC
Is England* vs Turkey truly balanced?
The stats spread on England* vs Turkey is innocuous enough. England* wins 55% of games which do not end in a draw, Turkey wins 45%. England is favored, but not to the extent that Turkey can't win; the game is not balanced, but it also isn't drastically skewed either way.

However, I have recently encountered an opening from England that I'm struggling to counter as Turkey.
8 replies
Open
michael_b (971 D)
12 Aug 17 UTC
Question: Adding Variant(s)
Please see reply.
55 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
12 Sep 17 UTC
Gunboat with me
Hey, if anyone is interested in playing a beginner gunboat with me (I suck at gunboat) holla at me for the password http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=32229
4 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
12 Sep 17 UTC
"...tuesday" game sequel is out...
Pls play this WWII map...
Remember, only on Tuesdays!
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=32223
8 replies
Open
michael_b (971 D)
11 Sep 17 UTC
Strong British Position
http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=31381
0 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1596 D (B) (B))
06 Sep 17 UTC
Online Dip Pet Peeves
We're introducing a new segment to the podcast. Have your say (more below)...
53 replies
Open
Jamie_T (895 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
Hello!
I have been banned from webDiplomacy because Zultar wants it to be a safe space for neo-Nazis and other white supremacists.

You nice people will have to put up with me instead (until I get banned here, I guess).
42 replies
Open
TheatreVarus (921 D)
09 Sep 17 UTC
Dueling
Looking for someone to play a few friendly duels on the Cold War map. Just picked the game back up and I want to get some practice in. Anyone interested can DM me.
0 replies
Open
kaner406 (1515 D Mod (B) (B))
24 Sep 16 UTC
(+3)
I've been Boursed!!! 2016
Hi all, when Amby and I were recording our recent podcast (diplomacygames.com) the topic of Bourse came up, and I got really excited and thought that I would try to get another game of this variant running...
198 replies
Open
d-ice (1672 D)
06 Sep 17 UTC
Force drawn games
Games with fixed end year are (for ranking purposes) treated like solo victories for the power with the largest SC tally (even when PPSC scoring is used). Is that intentional? Not that I think it matters much to me, but I do find it rather odd, it would seem like the more logical approach would be that they are treated as force drawn, or possibly use affect ranking differently depending on scoring system used.
6 replies
Open
kaner406 (1515 D Mod (B) (B))
12 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
Update regarding vPoints/Rankings
See below:
37 replies
Open
jason4747 (883 D)
03 Sep 17 UTC
“Vietnam: Apocalypse Then” – new variant in development
I am working on a Diplomacy variant and am seeking opinions on the board and design. See below
4 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1596 D (B) (B))
02 Sep 17 UTC
Dumb question: where is Imperium?
I felt like playing a map I haven't played in a million years: Imperium Diplomacy (http://www.vdiplomacy.net/variants.php?variantID=13)

More to follow...
3 replies
Open
Enriador (1374 D)
26 Aug 17 UTC
Early game vs. End game
Every game of Diplomacy has two distinct phases, which mix a bit in the middle: the early game and the end game, each of them with a very different vibe and atmosphere.
1 reply
Open
BenjaminHester (1027 D)
24 Aug 17 UTC
Oli - still out there? (re: Sengoku V6)
just posting here in case my vacation delay caused you to lose the other thread. Several responses there, including the map with names you requested.
0 replies
Open
Vauban (1068 D)
23 Aug 17 UTC
New Variant: Corsican revolt
See reply
2 replies
Open
Enriador (1374 D)
21 Aug 17 UTC
How are Points Per Supply Center calculated?
Hello guys;

I searched the forum but did not find any information on the formula used at PPSC games. If anyone can come up with an example using the formula as well I would thank you very much.
32 replies
Open
ScubaSteve (1194 D)
21 Aug 17 UTC
Bug in game. What action to take?
I am trying to enter a move in a variant but for some reason, the game won't allow it. I sent a message to the mods. Is there anything else I can/should do?
5 replies
Open
00matthew2000 (2636 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
New Rinascimento Game
The password for this game is "a" (lowercase). Players are greatly desired, but be advised, several players in this game know each other in real life. We will keep communication strictly within the game as per site rules.
1 reply
Open
Captainmeme (1628 D Mod (B))
10 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
To Everyone in Furnace of Affliction
I'm really sorry, as I was trying to fix the Indonesia Build bug the game sent everyone into CD and cancelled itself. This was because I forgot about another bug - if you enter all holds, it counts as an NMR even if saved, so when I tried to advance the game 2 phases it assumed everyone had NMR'd twice (even though I'd set hold orders for everyone).
34 replies
Open
Vauban (1068 D)
12 Aug 17 UTC
HOW TO for variants
For anyone who wants to share their variant creating skills
3 replies
Open
CCR (1759 D)
10 Aug 17 UTC
Furnace of Affliction
=^|
"Due to inactivity the game was abandoned and removed."
5 replies
Open
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