I like it... keep me posted as it progresses.

I want to play and will. Though that stupid migraine map gives me migraines :-P

lol. Ill play it sonds fun, but what happens to the person who gets egypt they have no chance of winning check the stats on the world game

Diplomat, quit complaining about your headaches and get your ass over to the lab. You're screwing up the whole Pirates game!

I would only play if it the top 7 from the Migraine game get to play classic (there has to be at least one classic game) and instead of lepanto we play Duo (a just as balanced better map)

I would also like to include Hundred as a 3 player map, but that might be going to far.

1v1s really don't actually demonstrate who is better at Diplomacy. Almost better to have the last game be a 5-8 player map and then the winner (or drawing survivors) is the champion.

Make every game an anon game and have the Hundred game be the last map. 2 way draws are impossble (given how the map divides) so there has to be a solo. Since every game I have played on the map is 2 players allying against the 3rd and then betraying eachother to attempting the solo, trying to convince that 3rd to now join forces with eachother and repeat steps it requires a lot of timing and diplomacy, 2 key things that 2 player games lack.

Great idea gman. Agree with fasces though that the final map should be a 3 player variant. For someone to survive the whittling down requires a combination of strategy, tactics and diplomacy. When you get down to a 2 player game obviously diplomacy no longer applies, so its not a fair way of ending things off.

You could select a different map for each number of players and have all those who draw go on to the next map until someone wins. The map chosen would depend on how many there were in the draw.

e.g. 10 players play a Fall of American Empire game and get a 6 way draw. Then those 6 players play Fubar and get a 3 way draw then those 3 play Hundred as so on.

I noticed there are no 13 or 14 player variants on the site.

There is a variant being tested in the labs thats 13 players. So patiences ShootingStar patience (at least I thought when I breifly looked at it it was 13, but I could have miscounted.

Yes, the pirates variant appears to be 13 players. I think its a good excuse to find/make a 14 player variant as there isn't one. I am waiting for another variant I converted to be tested at the moment.

I had tons of ideas for variants, some of which people really liked... but I don't have the time or energy to put forth designing one myself, and nobody seemed interested enough to take my ideas and make the variants...

Hey! I would definitely be interested in a tournament. Keep me posted as it advances.

@butter - you gotta give a bit more than an idea for people to run with it, you need to provide a starting point. At the moment I'm helping King Atom work through his variant on it's way to the lab, and I'd be more than happy to assist you in the same way:

http://forum.webdiplomacy.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=754&start=0

once again, I don't have the time to do anything more than form an idea... that's why I give the idea to people, so they can take it and build on it however they see fit... I don't know code, I don't have the software to work on a "basic map" or anything like that, and I do not have the time to work on it... I just like to throw the ideas out there and if someone wants to steal one of them, they can...

@kaner
I would appreciate you looking at the variant I converted. Its just a modification of the classic map, so its not very complicated.

I posted it here: http://forum.webdiplomacy.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=819

@butter - the ''code'' is really simple. all you need to do to start is make the map, Oli takes care of all of the complex stuff, and the rest is really easy - simple drop box menu selection.. But you need the map to start from.

@ShootingStar - looks like I don't need to help you very much, speak to oli and ask him if he'll be happy to upload the images into the lab for you.

@kaner- once again: do... not... have... the... time... see my 2 forum threads, should be easy enough for someone to figure out my idea's since i mapped them out very clearly...

Open... a... paint... program... and... use... the... paint... bucket... to... describe... visually...

@kaner
Glad that it looks ok. I told Oli about it already and I'm waiting until he's not so busy.

I have seen all these comments and will reply to them when I have time.

So, the main comments here are as follows:
1) Big maps are imbalanced
2) Different map choices would be good
3) Two-player maps are not that good
4) Anon is good

So, here are my thoughts:
1) Every single map is imbalanced except for Pure, Lepanto, Duo, Migraine and Ratwars. This is more pronounced in the larger variants (17 players and up), all of which have at least one 0 performance country. Imbalance is a fact and while it's unfortunate that whoever gets Egypt on the World Map is very likely screwed, I can't think of a good way to fix this. The statistics show WWIV to be more balanced than either Chaos or Chaoctopi and while this is likely because of sample size, I think it's much better to use variants where players don't start with just one center. Starting with more gives the players more control over their destiny. If anyone has a solution, please share.

2) I am very open to the idea of playing at least one classic game. I will think about how we can best fit that in. I am also open to any maps people think should be played although it would take far too long to play them all.

3) I personally have never played a variant smaller than Ancient Med with Full Press. I have only played gunboats on the smaller variants. So, I am not aware of the diplomatic skill involved in 3-player games. I would be very willing to end with a 3-player map if that is what people want.

4) Yes. Anon is good. I was thinking that all games should be anon so that players cannot choose who advances. Just to clarify, here will be the parameters for all the games: PPSC, Full Press, Anonymous, 36 or 48 hour phases. My initial idea was that since we would be taking approximately half the players to each game, it would be good to double the bet for each game to make the pots approximately equal. However, maybe just a 5 or 10 point bet is best. Also, the final match will be WTA.

@gman - Re point 1, Who Controls America is also perfectly balanced.

I forgot about that one.

But the point wasn't to list the balanced variants. The point is that all the variants with large numbers of players are imbalanced. Chaoctopi has several 0 performance players, Chaos, World Diplomacy IX and Known world also each have a plurality. In Haven, the Pirates have never survived and in WWIV it's Egypt. Of these variants, all have a sample of 3 games except for Haven and WWIV, which have had 9 and 10 games played respectively.

Although, even in Rinascimento, arguably the most imbalanced variant on this site, there are no powers with a performance of 0. This is due to more playing as the variant has 29 completed games. So, it's quite possible that over time the imbalances in all the variants become less pronounced although I think that with more players, this will take longer.

I love this idea - different and very "survivor-ish". Count me in if you need players.

Above counts for me too :)

my tuppence worth says that you aught to have at least one or two games with public press only.

Public Press is a definite idea.

there have been very few chaos/chaoctopi games so the stats are probably about as balanced as the stats in wwIX game is

That's what I said. All three of those as well as Known World 901 have only 3 finished games to gather statistics from.

2 things that came to my mind:

Although the tournament is mainly about the ability to limp into the next stage, it could be nice if a soloing player could choose the next variant. It would provide some incentive to risk more. Of course the winner would be bound by the number of advancing players. If the game ended in a draw, a default variant would be used. So if there was a 3 player variant after solo in classic, the winner could choose from Hundred, 1066... and if there was a draw, Hundred would be played.

Double elimination. If there were many intermediate steps (say 7-5-3 player variants), many people would advance to the next stage. Therefore, one big unbeatable alliance could be formed at the start of each game that would steamroll the remaining minority, thus sucking out all the fun. One way to solve this would be to have less steps. The other one is double elimination.

Say we start with WWIV, 35 players. 19 players advance to Haven, 16 players fall to 2 Migraines.

From Haven, 9 players advance to Known World 901 and are accompanied by top 3 from each of Migraines. Losers from Migraines end, 10 losers from Haven play Modern II.

Top 7 of Known World and top 4 from Modern II play Crowded. Losers from Modern end, 8 losers from Known World play Karibik.

Top 5 from Crowded and top 2 from Karibik play Classic. Losers from Karibik end, 6 losers from Fall play Imperium.

Top 3 of Classic and top 2 of Imperium play Ancient Med, losers from Classic Rat wars.

Top 2 of AncMed gets to play Hundred, while the winner of Rat Wars (rats fight till the end!) play loser from AncMed in yet another Rat Wars, whose winner gets to Hundred.

Winner of Hundred is winner since we don't want to play 2 player maps and so the double elimination is eliminated from the final step ;)

That was just my rough idea, the parameters are debatable, as well as the moment when to eliminate the elimination (can't get enough of it :)

Also, public press would help in curbing the mega alliance but I can't imagine how WWIV turns out in Wilson.

that souns like a good idea Im interested in playing

@myLAAN: I really like the idea of Double Elimination. That also helps solve the issue that mispelledlazer pointed out with what happens to the unlucky soul who gets stuck with Egypt in WWIV. The idea of the winner picking the variant is great as well so I think we'll merge the two. We'll (likely) use your format with just a substitution of (n-player variant) for each choice with a default selection as well.

start it up and I'll get on board

I gotta say, the Double Elimination idea is pretty awesome. Excellent idea myLAAN. Count me in for this if/when it gets started.

OK. I will soon create a new thread as a sign-up thread. There I will have the details we appear to have decided on. Those who have expressed interest here will be signed up automatically.

The other Thread is here:
http://vdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=19614#19614

I really want to play on this!!!

PLEASE LET ME JOIN!!!!!