@fasces- between that message and the ones I received from aus, it was my understanding that we were convoying to Brest in spring, and THEN you were convoying to Wales. I won't be home till late so I can't explain why, but that's why my order was wrong.

14 hours left to send me your orders.

-------

Germany insolvent, the last English footholds on the continent lost to Italy and Russia. The Austrian Rouble jumps in value, and the Russian admiralty succeeds in convoying to Wales.

-------

Autumn 1908 currency values:

Austrian Crowns: $4.23
English Pounds: $1.03
French Francs: $1.43
German Marks: $0
Italian Lire: $3.91
Russian Roubles: $3.79

The total amount of each currency sold/bought is:
Austrian Crowns: 500 sold, 16262 bought = +15700 , up 1.57
English Pounds: 1850 sold, 0 bought = -1800 , down 0.18
French Francs: 1498 sold, 0 bought = -1400 , down 0.14
German Marks: 1701 sold, 0 bought = 0 Germany insolvent.
Italian Lire: 3499 sold, 0 bought = -3400 , down 0.34
Russian Roubles: 2500 sold, 1645 bought = -900 , down 0.09

Players' current Victory Points:
Devonian: vp = 2012
Diplomat33: vp = 54
L Podolski: vp = 900
Guaroz: vp = 1667
gman314: vp = 1661
tobi1: vp = 1795
drano019: vp = 976
hiprox: vp = 882
Ambassador: vp = 1401
amisond: vp = 629
DoubleCaps: vp = 576
0ri0n: vp = 628

Players' Net Worth:
Devonian: $ 86378.74
Diplomat33: $ 6872.71
L Podolski: $ 32629.72
Guaroz: $ 82273.63
gman314: $ 72537.35
tobi1: $ 72999
drano019: $ 34502.5
hiprox: $ 36247.72
Ambassador: $ 57389.8
amisond: $ 25124.58
DoubleCaps: $ 20874.45
0ri0n: $ 27282.92

-------

Who holds what & what was bought and sold in Autumn 1908?

Devonian: Crowns 4681(+4681), Pounds 600(-500), Francs 6504(-499), Marks 0, Lire 10843(-499), Roubles 3763(-500), US$1.49

Diplomat33: Crowns 0, Pounds 500, Francs 2000, Marks 0, Lire 181, Roubles 0, US$ 2790

L Podolski: Crowns 0, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Marks 0, Lire 3600, Roubles 4895(+895), US$1.67

Guaroz: Crowns 8303(-500), Pounds 0(-200), Francs 0(-500), Marks 0(-500), Lire 5700(-500), Roubles 2702(-500), US$14624.36

gman314: Crowns 5400(+3400), Pounds 3003(-500), Francs 7003(-499), Marks 0(-1), Lire 5900, Roubles 3500, US$253.97

tobi1: Crowns 7600(+4500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Marks 0(-200), Lire 7500(-500), Roubles 3000(-500), US$156

drano019: Crowns 1000, Pounds 3000, Francs 0, Marks 0, Lire 200, Roubles 6950, US$ 60

hiprox: Crowns 6310(+1721), Pounds 0(-150), Francs 0, Marks 0(-500), Lire 894(-500), Roubles 1599(-500), US$0.67

Amby: Crowns 6000(+500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Marks 0(-500), Lire 2986(-500), Roubles 4556(-500), US$3067.3

amisond: Crowns 0, Pounds 5000(-500), Francs 0, Marks 0, Lire 1500(-500), Roubles 3718(+750), US$18.36

DoubleCaps: Crowns 0, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Marks 0, Lire 87(-500), Roubles 4857, US$2126.25

0ri0n: Crowns 5267(+1460), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Marks 0, Lire 1279, Roubles 0, US$2.62

----

Germany is insolvent, and so now Marks cannot be traded. Any German Marks that were still held are now lost.

I'll also PM everyone soon as to their current stocks in holding.

Thanks!

----

Graphs:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26uWXdiWW1sUno4Rnc
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26uWWRHdTFNRko4SHc

What this game needs is a way to topple a clear leader. Unless Guaroz gets stuck with a lot of cash, like he has now, I can't see a way for anyone to pass up Guaroz.

Curious game. I've spent all my time in it hoping Devo was right.
Who knows, perhaps when the game will be in 1914 I'll be still hoping.

@Devo:

Perhaps that's why they played it without communication on dip2000.
With communication Bourse is often predictable. For example you post Francs will rise and Francs surely will rise if you mention the perfect arguments for that.

Without communication it's sometimes even more predictable, but on the other hand you can't be completely sure how players react. You don't know what others will do and you can't influence there decision.

Perhaps some decisive actions like the great rise of Francs weren't that decisive without communication.

Very true, tobi1.
I believe Bourse is a Full Press Diplomacy game. IMHO, it's not a coincidence that the most talkative players are topping the rankings and the most silent (or at least they have been with me) are all in the second half.
How much Luck do you need to win a full press Migraine if you play it as if it was a gunboat?

Hmm, I was reading tobi's post as an arguement for making it no press.

Er... I read it as some free consideration about press, not necessarily either pro or against.

We already debated earlier on this thread what press rule NEXT game should have, do you recall?

I don't, what page?

In my opinion the reason I am in the lower half is not due to a lack communication but more just some wrong moves. Once you are in the lower rankings it is very difficult to work back up, especially as the game moves towards the latter stages.

7 hours until left for investors to send me their orders.

-------

Quite a bit of movement for a peaceful Europe. Amby makes a faux-pas...

-------

Spring 1909 currency values:

Austrian Crowns: $4.14
English Pounds: $0.93
French Francs: $1.39
Italian Lire: $3.61
Russian Roubles: $4.74

The total amount of each currency sold/bought is:
Austrian Crowns: 1903 sold, 1031 bought = -900 , down 0.09
English Pounds: 1000 sold, 0 bought = -1000 , down 0.10
French Francs: 499 sold, 0 bought = -400 , down 0.04
Italian Lire: 3086 sold, 0 bought = -3000 , down 0.30
Russian Roubles: 500 sold, 10094 bought = +9500 , up 0.95

Players' current Victory Points:
Devonian: vp = 2070
Diplomat33: vp = 54
L Podolski: vp = 927
Guaroz: vp = 2158
gman314: vp = 1661
tobi1: vp = 1820
drano019: vp = 976
hiprox: vp = 882
Ambassador: vp = 1532
amisond: vp = 639
DoubleCaps: vp = 616
0ri0n: vp = 628

Players' Net Worth:
Devonian: $ 87551.05
Diplomat33: $ 6688.41
L Podolski: $ 36840.17
Guaroz: $ 87127.63
gman314: $ 73025.93
tobi1: $ 74060
drano019: $ 40655
hiprox: $ 36930.67
Ambassador: $ 62266.05
amisond: $ 28381.68
DoubleCaps: $ 24920.81
0ri0n: $ 26425.19


-------

Who holds what & what was bought and sold in Spring 1909?

Devonian: Crowns 4181(-500), Pounds 100(-500), Francs 6005(-499), Lire 10344(-499), Roubles 5160(+1397), US$1.52

Diplomat33: Crowns 0, Pounds 500, Francs 2000, Lire 181, Roubles 0, US$ 2790

L Podolski: Crowns 0, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 3100(-500), Roubles 5411(+516), US$1.03

Guaroz: Crowns 7900(-403), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 5200(-500), Roubles 7500(+4798), US$99.63

gman314: Crowns 5400, Pounds 3003, Francs 7003, Lire 5900, Roubles 3500, US$253.97

tobi1: Crowns 7100(-500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 7000(-500), Roubles 4000(+1000), US$436

drano019: Crowns 1000, Pounds 3000, Francs 0, Lire 200, Roubles 6950, US$ 60

hiprox: Crowns 6310, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 894, Roubles 1599, US$0.67

Amby: Crowns 5500(-500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 2486(-500), Roubles 6439(+1883), US$0.73

amisond: Crowns 0, Pounds 4500(-500), Francs 0, Lire 1000(-500), Roubles 4218(+500), US$593.36

DoubleCaps: Crowns 1031(+1031), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 0(-87), Roubles 4357(-500), US$0.29

0ri0n: Crowns 5267, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 1279, Roubles 0, US$2.62

----

I'll also PM everyone soon (within 12 hours) as to their current stocks in holding.

Thanks!

----

I don't think, we really debated on how to play the next game. Some players listed their opinion, but there wasn't a discussion. And that's some turns ago.
I changed my opinion now. Well, not really changed, but at the moment I prefer a non-press game as the next game. Just to try it out.

In my view Bourse is a bid boring at the moment. One currency rises the others drop and so on. You simply have to talk to some others and you don't take much risk.
Without communication you have to appraise how every player sees the situation. And I'm sure there will be different views. Every turn would be exciting because you want to find out if your thoughts on the others' actions were right.
All in all there would be less tactics and the values were similar to actions on the board. If we want to find a more realistic way which isn't that complicated, this would be the best. In reality you can't communicate with every investor, too. You have to think on how others will react.

In my opinion no press seems to be very interesting, too. Maybe you've got another opinion. But I would try it out.

Um yes. "Debate" look a too big word for 3-4 posts about it, I just found it back.
@ fasces: page 13.
There were 4 options. I believe they're all playable. And although I believe this is the most funny, I could be wrong so we should try the other three, before choosing the best.

Did anyone notice 5 players miss their orders last turn? Isn't it an issue for the Market?

Or did those 5 players just HOLD their stocks?

Does it look a smart move to you, at any point of the game?

not quite, at least people will not hold ALL of their stocks. lol.

I've prepared a spreadsheet for Known World 901, for when we start the next Bourse game after this one. I'll put it up in googledocs for people to download at their pleasure.

here it is:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26uSWkxelB2Z0N2YWc

Just wondering - if you're doing a round on KW901, why not use the next Whittle Down game as the game itself? It's easier than finding 16 players to take part, as well as the investors, and it's pretty much guaranteed that there won't be any CDs (people this far into the tournament must have a certain amount of determination to play...)

That's a really good idea, provided there are no clashes between people both playing and investing, I see no problem with this. (and provided the first Bourse game finishes before Whittle-down commences... It's crazy enough keeping track of all the PMs as it is - let alone 2 Bourse games at once! [pull out hair] )

I think Whittle Down is starting after the 6th August, due to people's holidays, so the first one should be finished by the time that game starts.

-------

England solvent. Some horse trading going on. Where will Europe go from here?

-------

Autumn 1909 currency values:

Austrian Crowns: $3.84
English Pounds: $0
French Francs: $1.30
Italian Lire: $3.9
Russian Roubles: $4.43

The total amount of each currency sold/bought is:
Austrian Crowns: 3000 sold, 0 bought = -3000 , down 0.3
English Pounds: 1100 sold, 0 bought = England insolvent.
French Francs: 1000 sold, 100 bought = -900 , down 0.9
Italian Lire: 1500 sold, 4436 bought = +2900 , up 0.29
Russian Roubles: 3500 sold, 436 bought = -3100 , down 0.31

Players' current Victory Points:
Devonian: vp = 2002
Diplomat33: vp = 50
L Podolski: vp = 958
Guaroz: vp = 2222
gman314: vp = 1520
tobi1: vp = 1910
drano019: vp = 948
hiprox: vp = 890
Ambassador: vp = 1578
amisond: vp = 494
DoubleCaps: vp = 614
0ri0n: vp = 640

Players' Net Worth:
Devonian: $ 87361.46
Diplomat33: $ 6095.9
L Podolski: $ 36407
Guaroz: $ 84584.63
gman314: $ 69278.87
tobi1: $ 73416.5
drano019: $ 35468.5
hiprox: $ 34801.24
Ambassador: $ 60002.6
amisond: $ 23654.1
DoubleCaps: $ 23275.68
0ri0n: $ 25216


-------

Who holds what & what was bought and sold in Autumn 1909?

Devonian: Crowns 3681(-500), Pounds 0(-100), Francs 5505(-500), Lire 9844(-500), Roubles 4660(-500), US$7034.52

Diplomat33: Crowns 0, Pounds 0, Francs 2000, Lire 181, Roubles 0, US$ 2790

L Podolski: Crowns 0, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 3756(+656), Roubles 4911(-500), US$2.87

Guaroz: Crowns 7400(-500), Pounds 0, Francs 100(+100), Lire 6400(+1200), Roubles 7000(-500), US$68.63

gman314: Crowns 4900(-500), Pounds 0(-500), Francs 6503(-500), Lire 5400(-500), Roubles 3000(-500), US$7658.97

tobi1: Crowns 6600(-500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 8350(+1350), Roubles 3500(-500), US$2.5

drano019: Crowns 1000, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 200, Roubles 6950, US$ 60

hiprox: Crowns 6310, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 894, Roubles 1599, US$0.67

Amby: Crowns 5000(-500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 3716(+1230), Roubles 5939(-500), US$0.43

amisond: Crowns 0, Pounds 0(-500), Francs 0, Lire 500(-500), Roubles 3718(-500), US$ 5233.36

DoubleCaps: Crowns 531(-500), Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 0, Roubles 4793(+436), US$3.65

0ri0n: Crowns 5267, Pounds 0, Francs 0, Lire 1279, Roubles 0, US$2.62

----

I'll also PM everyone soon as to their current stocks in holding. (soon'ish, I'm going to bed now)

Thanks!

----

well, congrats on Guaroz for winning the first game of bourse.

Although it isn't official yet, the consensus among the players was that we would draw after England and Germany were dead. Its just a matter of waiting for Russia and France to log in now. (me and Austria already have voted).

-------

And there you have it folks, great game all!

-------

Final standings (in order):

1st: Guaroz: vp = 2222
2nd Devonian: vp = 2002
3rd: tobi1: vp = 1910
4th: Ambassador: vp = 1578
5th: gman314: vp = 1520
6th: L Podolski: vp = 958
7th: drano019: vp = 948
8th: hiprox: vp = 890
9th: 0ri0n: vp = 640
10th: DoubleCaps: vp = 614
11th: amisond: vp = 494
12th: Diplomat33: vp = 50

-------

Firstly I must congratulate everyone who played, in particular the winning 4. At a number of points I was sure that the R/A/I alliance would collapse but there must have been some pretty firm diplomacy going on to keep it on track. Well done!

Secondly thanks to all the investors, in particular all those that chatted to me letting me know their thoughts behind their buys, it made the whole thing much more interesting to GM. The bourse had some interesting times - in particular that huge buy of Franks made by gman314 & Devonian - good thinking guys.

Thirdly congratulations to Guaroz for winning the very first game of Bourse, well done! I'm sure other investors will be interested to hear from you.

Finally we have been invited to run a Bourse for the KnownWorld Whittle down tournament, I personally think that this would be a great idea, but first let's see what level of interest there is to run this.

here are the final graphs for the Bourse:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26uTFBQcW9ROFljRlE
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26ub2czZDZZNGxBSWM
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26udFRZbllIZlZJMXc
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxIREuIvx26udi1waEFxV1BFdlU

-------

EoGs that I have received:

King Atom - Turkey
My Boursed EoG:
A long time ago, there was a mighty nation known as Turkey, it prospered and sought global domination. First, however, their fierce leaders looked towards the scattered nations of Europe for their initial conquest.
Their initial reaction was to ally with Austria and push up into Sevastopol, where they would be able to control the area surrounding the Black Sea. The Russians stabbed right away, leaving Turkey's units in a position of ugliness! Meanwhile, Turkey's friends, the Italians decided to move their little armies into Trieste. Turkey presumed that this meant that they were stabbing and that western conflict would ensue, but it was a trick all along! A Key Lepanto was on its way...
With Austria and Italy being allies all along, and beginning to gang bang poor little Turkey, Russia desperately sought for forgiveness, but it was not given. Turkey's officials decided to move their units back towards Persia to begin Asian conquest, conceding the great Western cities to lesser Empires.

airborne - Germany
It’s really late so this EoG will most likely not be of best quality. Now with that out of the way let’s get to the game. Have you ever had a hand of off suit 3 and 6 in Texas Hold ‘Em and said piss off, I’m all in? Well that’s pretty lame analogy to what happened with me siding with Russia against Austria even throughout having the first strike capability for very long time. Why? Because I trusted an English alliance and he didn’t want me to strike against Russia when I said multiple times. Let’s hit Russia hard. The game became a standard, don’t be the out man out of the triangle. Much to France’s lost, England and I gained some ground. I attacked Austria the same time Russia attacked me. I gambled lost, should of attacking Russia even without England’s approval. Tactical last stand, the end.

Gg. made some obvious bluders but i mainly played for fun. good luck next bourse.

England.

Well...uh...I guess Germany's right, I should have agreed on Russia sooner, but I really wanted to get France out of the way first. By the time Russia started getting really aggressive, we had nowhere to go but each other, so we kind of died alone, so to speak.

Pretty disappointed to see easily eliminated 2 SC France in on the draw, but hey, it's what happens.

EOG:
Spring 1901: The first time I logged in, I had only 2 messages to view, one from Germany and one from Austria. Both of them were offering a 3-way alliance, so I thought why not. I responded to Austria by offering a key lepanto, and convinced him to do it mainly on the grounds to see the markets reaction. I would almost never do a key lepanto in a normal game, the only other time I did it, I stabbed Austria because I was caught up in guilt. (What happened was Turkey asked if it was a key lepanto, I told him the move to East Med was a misorder, Turkey then built a fleet in Ankara leaving Smyrna wide open and sent me the message I trust you. I couldn't bring myself to taking a wide open SC)

Early Game:
1901 I felt bad about what we were doing to Turkey. I was very careful about what I said to King Atom and tried my best not to tell a single lie. For a note:
I asked him if he was willing to support me into Greece. I never told him my fleet was moving to Greece, I was just asking if he wanted to submit that order...

Mid Game
Me and Austria pulled off the lepanto and then we where torn on what to do. I had alliances with Russia and Germany at this stage, and so was nuetral to attacking either. I told Austria I was going to attack France and he could do what he liked. Austria choose to attack Russia (at this point in time, me and Butterhead where in another game where butterhead had just stabbed me, so we were having an arguement about honour. When naming people who I considered to be honourable, I put Canaduh in that list. I just thought it was ironic that 3 days later, Canaduh stabbed Butterhead), however that very turn Germany stabbed Austria. At this point I was freaking out, Russia+Germany+England was ~20sc at this stage, and so in theory the I-A wouldn't stand a chance.

I entered negotiations with Russia and convinced him to side with me and Austria and brokered peace between Russia and Austria. It was a success, not sure how, but thankfully it was.

Given that England and Germany were steamrolling through France, I decided to make it my mission to make it so France would survive to the end of the game. I told France this and we started working well together, and slowly the Germany-England alliance collapsed.

As a note, if England and Germany choose to attack Russia instead of Austria, the war between us and them wouldn't have started, and it would have probably ended in a 4-way draw between Me-Austria-England and France. Or maybe some stabs would have happened if it was 2-way alliances rather then 3.

In truth I probably would have stabbed Canaduh at some point had it just been a 2-way alliance. I didn't though because it was a 3-way and I didn't know if Butterhead would help me or turn on me as a result. I chose not to risk it. (Canaduh is one of the players on my ok to stab list).

End Game
Most of what happens next on my end is self explanitory (though I would like to know why England and Germany started attacking eachother rather then attempt to stop I-A-R).

At this point, it was clear that England and Germany were going to die, however I was torn in my mind. Austria had made it clear to me that he would prefer France to die and we 3-way draw rather then 4. However I wanted France in the draw, he was a loyal vassal, and he didn't quit and he helped us win. I was debating wether to listen to Austria and 3-way draw, or stand alone and potentially have to fight an Austria-Russia 2 way. I didn't want to stab France (even though he had just stabbed me in another game) thought I knew that being attacked by Austria-Russia was almost guarenteed death (unless one of them came at risk of soloing and I convinced the other to help me survive to stop it). It was at this point that Russia sent me a message out of the blue asking me if we wanted to have France in the draw at the end of the game. This was a relief and so my fears once again were somehow saved.

After this we were all intent on a 4-way draw and so did.