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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Just need some Clarification
So I have a fleet ready to attack New Zealand and there's an enemy one ready to do the same. If I use a supported attack from some other troops to attack the enemy fleet (assuming it has no unit supporting it holding) while moving in to New Zealand with my other fleet what happens?
1 reply
Open
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
Sun 11 Nov UTC
(+2)
Armistice
100 years today.
23 replies
Open
Devonian (1871 D)
29 Jun 15 UTC
(+14)
1v1 Tournament Rules, Rankings, and Challenges
Official Rules for 1v1 Ladder Tournament
1673 replies
Open
PTTG (851 D)
Fri 01 AM UTC
Mistakenly dropped from a game?
Re; gameID=36387. My country was put into CD and I was dropped despite playing as normal and checking in every day.
I don't care about getting back in the game, but I would like to fix my reliability score.
1 reply
Open
butterhead (975 D)
21 May 12 UTC
(+11)
Advertise your NON-live games here!
In an effort to compromise the pro-ads versus anti-ads for games: Post here for your non-live games to cut down on the number of ads but still advertise games. Post game link, WTA or PPSC, and the bet. Note: this doesn't count for special rules games.
2509 replies
Open
jmodugno (1048 D)
Mon 12 Nov UTC
Can someone explain this move?
Why did Rumania support to budapest from Galicia fail?
https://vdiplomacy.com/map.php?gameID=36477&turn=6&mapType=large
5 replies
Open
ScubaSteve (1199 D)
Thu 08 Nov UTC
Health Problems
I have a couple of games going. One super interesting and one less so. Would anyone be willing to take over?
9 replies
Open
Yoshimon (812 D)
Sun 11 Nov UTC
(+2)
Replacement
I’m going through some mental health issues right now, and would appreciate if someone would be willing to take over 3 games that I’m currently in
3 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1676 D (B) (B))
02 Sep 16 UTC
(+7)
New podcast for online Dip games
Hi everyone

Kaner and I have started a podcast about playing Diplomacy online....
198 replies
Open
WWII Tournament
I would like to start a tournament. I've seen the Known World and 1v1 tournaments, and those are great fun. So why not apply it to World War II? I'm still working out the details, but I'll post some details.
353 replies
Open
gman314 (1016 D)
12 Mar 11 UTC
(+19)
Winning
Oli won.
On Imperial Civilization's off-topic thread (link inside), there was a brief stint of Second to Last Person to Post Wins. Now that the thread is closed, Oli won.
6976 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1676 D (B) (B))
Sat 03 Nov UTC
Kaner temporarily offline
Hi everyone - in case you're waiting on Kaner for any games etc, his internet connection at home has died and his ISP are being difficult. Not smart when his ISP contract ends in a week. So he's going to switch providers in a week and will unfortunately have to "go dark" from vDip for that period of time. But he will be back.
9 replies
Open
kaner406 (1375 D Mod (B) (B))
08 Sep 18 UTC
(+1)
Variant Development Thread
This thread is made for the express purpose of cutting down of multiple threads that deal with new variants, ideas, concepts etc...
50 replies
Open
Mercy (2068 D)
Wed 31 Oct UTC
Newspaper Game
A while ago, some players in threadID=80668 discussed playing another Newspaper game. Meanwhile, more than 7 players have shown their interest to participate in it, but no consensus on the specific settings of the game has been reached yet. I have created this thread to set up the next Newspaper game and discuss its settings.
33 replies
Open
nopunin10did (1041 D)
26 Oct 18 UTC
(+2)
Recruiting for Dissolution (Play by Slack/Discord/Email)
Next year, starting in Jan or Feb 2019, I will GM a game of Dissolution, a 10-player Diplomacy variant* of my own creation. Dissolution is set in the 1990's, just after the breakup of the Soviet Union. This game is not a vDiplomacy site game; it will be played with most communication handled via IM (either Slack or Discord), with some email too.

More details below.
6 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1676 D (B) (B))
Wed 31 Oct UTC
Diplomacy World needs a hand!
The quarterly mag needs a few good Dippers. Find out more at https://mailchi.mp/c18279ad9e1d/diplomacy-world-staff-vacancies and give a hand for the hobby!
9 replies
Open
BBQSauce123321 (1461 D)
11 Oct 18 UTC
Grey Fog of War
So I have just discovered variants for both Grey Press and Fog of War. I have no idea how to code so can't make this happen, but if someone was able to combine these two variants, it would make for a very very interesting game, especially in Public Press
37 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1676 D (B) (B))
26 Mar 18 UTC
vDip Google Map...
Where is it again? I tried finding it referenced in old forum threads but as search is non-existent, lucked out.
15 replies
Open
Chumbles (1065 D)
07 Oct 18 UTC
(+2)
Smelly stand-ins/replacements
We have a situation, a 'metagaming' tactic which thoroughly distorts gunboat games' outcomes. Replacement players don't have to have the same RRas the game originally required. Thus we can get a replacement whose sole purpose is to recover their own RR by suiciding - moving their own units out of their centres in so another player can move in entirely uncontested.
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Retillion (2221 D (B))
12 Oct 18 UTC
Yes, a player taking over a CD will gain, or lose, vpoints for that game.

Let's look, for example, at this game : gameID=33459

Here is the vpoints page related to that game :
https://www.vdiplomacy.com/hof.php?gameID=33459

In that game :

• The player GOD CDed with Denmark. The player JK took it over and was included in the final draw. We can see that JK gained 20 vpoints.

• The player disailore CDed with Khazaria. The player Actaeon took it over and was eliminated. We can see that Actaeon lost 12 vpoints.
Chumbles (1065 D)
12 Oct 18 UTC
I confess I am of the same mind as YCHTTon this one Mercy; in the changes / Help section:

"December 22nd, 2015
...
All takeovers are now free."
Caerus (1599 D)
12 Oct 18 UTC
That is interesting, because poor aman2000 was defeated after taking over his CD in the game below and his score was affected.

https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=34615
https://vdiplomacy.com/hof.php?gameID=34615
Caerus (1599 D)
12 Oct 18 UTC
And that was earlier this year.
vixol (1295 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
But in FTF play (at least in the european hobby I once was a part of) people who suicided was frowned upon and not welcome to the hobby. It is as you say a thin line but there are clear cases of not trying to survive. You should play to 1) win, 2) draw, 3) prevent someone else from soloing, in that priority. Anything else is a playing style that just makes you a less fun opponent. You wouldnt be welcomed to my invite games...
Chumbles (1065 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
@vixol: hear hear! I'd go further; it would be regarded in the circles I played in in same light as "writing paper" in poker... You did that and none of us would ever play with you again. It's poisonous and selfish.
drano019 (2179 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
(+1)
@vixol and Chumbles -

I am interested to know how you guys would handle the following situation:

Turkey is on a roll, rapidly eating up Austria and Russia, and is dangerously close to getting on a solo run. Germany and Italy notice this, and coordinate a defense to block Turkey from getting the all-important spots from which to solo. However, France, having killed England, decides he's going to attack Germany, despite the warnings from Germany and Italy that this will lead to a Turkish solo. In desperation, Germany abandons his eastern defenses in order to "suicide" into France.

Would this not be a classic example of "I'm going to suicide into you and allow a solo unless you get your head out of your a$$ and let us stop the solo"?

I can agree completely that sometimes people (far too often on vDip sadly it seems) either just stop playing, or keep attacking one power while getting gobbled up by someone behind, not even listening to anyone's attempts at Diplomacy. I find those leave a bad taste in my mouth as well. But surely there are some situations where suiciding is a legitimate tactic is there not?
Caerus (1599 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
Does the Diplo community not have a concept of BadWrongFun? Is that not considered to be a thing here?
Define BadWrongFun. Too me, neta/multi/press violations/rule exploiting like refusing to unpause is BadWrongFun but chainsaw/suicide is a perfectly valid tactic and actually isn't fun for the guy doing it as he is desperate to wake up the idiot attacking him before it is too late.
gjdip (1462 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
(+1)
Suicide tactic, BatWrongFun or whatever is irrelevant to the original post by Chumbles, if I understand correctly. He was complaining about people taking over positions to fix a situation not directly related to the game and how to avoid those people. I do not know how to fix it except by not letting takeovers affect your ratings and score but I am sure someone has a clever idea.
Caerus (1599 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
TL;DR I think it is relevant, because you are trying to define what the proper way to have fun is. But on point: a way to prevent CD takeovers at game creation is a good idea. Can it be implemented?

-----------------------------------------------
BadWrongFun is someone else having fun in a way that you consider to be the "incorrect" way to have fun (Not a disregard for the established rules of the system). It is a term that I believe comes from the TableTop RPG community, where one group of players doesn't enjoy the way another group of players plays, because the first group's playstyle is obviously superior. The term was then coined to draw attention to, and subsequently mock, this behavior.

I like to think I am a fairly active member in this community, but I am guilty of exactly the BadWrongFun you are describing here. I do not always fight for what others would consider my best interests, I enjoy the site rankings. I love odd games with weird rules sets, and I adore the various Win Conditions, including the dichotomy of play between WTA and PPSC. The effect Taking over CDs has (i.e. not an adjustment to rating but adjustment game limit) is the only reason I have taken over the Cds I have taken over, and I see it as a wonderfully well built punishment (I NMR'ed, thus degrading the quality of game for my fellow players, so, as penance, I take on less than Ideal positions to improve the game experience for other players, until My debt is deemed repaid.)

I think the person in the OP did not take their punishment seriously, and that is very unfortunate, but it concerns me a great deal if we are to set about defining the right way to have fun, as my brand of "fun" is not likely to be the officially endorsed version.

All that aside, is it possible to prevent CD takeovers at game creation, making it a closed game at the outset? I assume a password does the trick, does it not?
bsiper (1030 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
Really this site needs some sort of ability to push notifications somewhere on an app or via email to remind people
Chumbles (1065 D)
15 Oct 18 UTC
Thank you gjdip; spot on.

@Caerus: speaking as one who has fun by gently taking the piss out of the worthy wordy amongst us, I wish I could have my "BadWrongFun" (what an abomination that car crash of a term is), but apparently the mods are quite capable of censuring it, even though it doesn't impact on any game. But they appear to lack either the means or the motive to fix an egregious bastard whose sole admitted reason for standing in is to suicide ASAP in order to repair his RR. I am NOT referring to when a player responds to a stab with a chainsaw attack.

@drano: Of course there are some situations where suiciding is a legitimate tactic! The case you specced demonstrates that. In a non-gunboat game it's a good way to demonstrate to an erstwhile ally that it would be a good idea to negotiate! At worst you can ensure he doesn't benefit from his perfidy.

"All that aside, is it possible to prevent CD takeovers at game creation, making it a closed game at the outset? I assume a password does the trick, does it not?" The former was something I suggested when this thread was still vaguely on topic. The latter would only meet that case should a password be required of the stand in, but I strongly recommend that it should be possible to opt to prevent CD takeovers at game creation. That way everyone would know where they stood.


Retillion (2221 D (B))
15 Oct 18 UTC
Caerus wrote :
"All that aside, is it possible to prevent CD takeovers at game creation, making it a closed game at the outset? I assume a password does the trick, does it not?"

NO ! A password does not do the trick at all. We have seen, here, in a game protected by a password with a CD, a player posting publicly the password in the forum and asking for a replacement player ! And some other player in that game found it great ! Even though it had been *explicitly* agreed, before the game begun that it was an invite game and that the password would not be given to other players, unless we agreed before.

It is always the same story : some players who will not benefit from a CD will feel the necessity to find a replacement player. In the game I am talking about, the player who gave the password publicly in the forum had just been eliminated but he did not want that the player who had eliminated him could possibly take advantage of the CD.

The only way to prevent players from taking over CDs in a game is to have the possibility to create games with that option.
But eliminating CD replacements on an absolute basis means a player who profits from the CD can rest comfortable in his solo run. A better way would be to set a minimum RR and/or experience level for CD takeover even if the game had none.
Mercy (2068 D)
16 Oct 18 UTC
I believe that you already cannot take over CD's in games that you do not meet the minimum RR requirement for. However, if the number of games you can join is limited because of a low RR, then you will still be able to take over CD's (so long as there are no minimum RR requirements for the specific games that you do not meet), which allows you to play more phases and thereby increase your RR faster.
Chumbles (1065 D)
16 Oct 18 UTC
...and suicide out of the game ASAP "and thereby increase [their] RR faster.
ingebot (1724 D)
16 Oct 18 UTC
In my opinion, it's a free country so anyone can play however they like, although they stand to lose vDip and webDip points, but if they don't care about that or sportsmanship we can't force them. I for one would not take over any CDs unless the country in question is in a fantastic position if there were greater costs in doing so as has been proposed by some here, and I think this will make most CDs remain CD, so any country profiting from it unfairly will just continue doing so. You might think that the guy taking over a CD suiciding into you is unfair to you, but if people were deterred from taking over CDs then that will be unfair to others, so CDs in general just serve to add unfairness into the game and in general should be discouraged more than they are now. What makes this game special is that the rules are simply and easy to understand, and there are no doubts to any decisions made. If we add significant subjective judgment in deciding if someone appears to be breaking the rules, then that will be the ruin of everything. I should be free to move my units however and wherever I want as long as I can, for whatever reason, even if there is none, and the rest is up to the game of diplomacy.
kaner406 (1375 D Mod (B) (B))
16 Oct 18 UTC
Well having an 'no-takeover' option in game creation would also prevent the 'accidental takeover' situation that we hear about from time to time in the mod forum as well. Definately a patch to an issue.
Chumbles (1065 D)
16 Oct 18 UTC
@ingebot: my idea is simplicity itself - just prove a no stand-in option; a random substitute will be by their very nature a random event. If you were playing a freeze-out game of poker and someone had to go, that seat would be vacant. You'd regard it as insane if a random passer by sat down and started playing with the departed guy's chips!

And I particularly feel that gunboat games are prey to the suicide lunacy.
@Chumbles. The problem with the poker tournament analogy is that the abandoned seat only looses their chips to blinds and antes. A CD position is ripe for stealing chips. It is as if the abandoned stack kept being siphoned off by his neighbors and the TD allowed it. Yes, I play semi-professional poker and stealing chips the way a power steals CD centers would get one banned from play.
ingebot (1724 D)
17 Oct 18 UTC
I'm fine with just an option to create games without CD takeovers. However, I'm not sure but isn't that addressed if you change the NMR policy?
vixol (1295 D)
17 Oct 18 UTC
@Drano:
There are as I said cases where the line is hard to draw. But that doesnt mean we need to allow all cases of suiced. There are for example cases where killing somone is self defence, that doesnt prevent our contries to outlaw murder.

I would actually try to hold the line rather than try the suicide strategy, and hope that France got the picture.The potential outcome would be the same, but keeping trying to prevent the solo has a greater chance of stopping it than suiciding would.
@vixol - Win, draw, lose trying to stop the solo with your allies, screw over anyone who tries to cut you out of the draw by giving the solo to the honest enemy. This is the order of Diplomacy. :-)
drano019 (2179 D)
17 Oct 18 UTC
@vixol -

Sounds like we're generally on the same page, although I disagree with your statement that trying to hold the line has a greater chance of stopping a solo than "suiciding" would. It all depends on who your opponents are. Being blunt, a lot of people on vDip simply aren't good enough to recognize solo threats. By continuing ot hold the line, you'd give them a false sense of security that would make them think that the solo isn't an imminent threat, and as such, they should continue attacking you. "Suiciding" on them makes the solo threat blatantly obvious, and should shock them out of their chosen path. Or at least, that's the general impression I've gotten out of a lot of people on this site.


55 replies
ingebot (1724 D)
04 Oct 18 UTC
(+1)
Workaround to "forced" ready
In rulebook press, part of the idea is that for retreat and builds it forces you to ready up. However, simply by then pressing "not ready", the order changes to "saved". Is it possible to promote the original idea of this press type by making the state of "not ready" equal to "no orders received"?
27 replies
Open
Bismark (985 D)
05 Oct 18 UTC
Can't build in a free SC?
I'm playing World War II and I've got 2 SC's free for example, but I can only build in one of them, I think it might have something to do with units bounced on the other SC in Autumn? Is this some rule somewhere that I've missed or an error?
3 replies
Open
ingebot (1724 D)
30 Sep 18 UTC
Hidden orders?
I'm recently back from a year and a half hiatus, and have noticed for a while that for anonymous games it no longer shows who has saved their orders, readied, or not entered orders yet. I can understand why this was done (I've exploited the old system extensively), just curious at to when this change was made, whether there was any discussion on the potential change, and why I haven't seen any information on the change in the rules/feature sections?
3 replies
Open
ingebot (1724 D)
28 Sep 18 UTC
IA map issue with English Channel
In the variant World War II, I never seem to be able to move to the English Channel using the IA interface, when I press the space it simply says something about the North Sea being not adjacent to the original position of the unit. It's never came up with any other location. Is this a common issue, or is it just me (I'll message the mods either way, just to get a sense of what might be going on here)?
2 replies
Open
This is likely to be my last forum post.
I'm sure the mods are pissed and I don't give a fuck. I could use a break anyhow. So silence or banhammer away.
19 replies
Open
What's the point in muting a nation in non-anon if the mods will let the player PM you?
A player PMed me after I muted his nation and the mods said it's not against the rules. It would seem to me to violate the intent of the press rules if not the letter. I have since muted the player for the rest of the game but that was not my desire.
4 replies
Open
Known World Tournament
Awhile back, kaner proposed a Known World gunboat tournament in which 15 participants would play 15 games, one with each nation. I searched back for the thread, then just decided to start a new one. I want to see if there would be sufficient interest in this to try to get it off the ground.
538 replies
Open
Kaiser Heide (1013 D)
15 Sep 18 UTC
Looking for a group.
Looking for a group of people that play pretty consistently if y’all want to add another to your group lmk. I’m interested.
13 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1676 D (B) (B))
16 Aug 18 UTC
Obscure group of vDip folks who love History podcasts
Ok I was just starting to pull together the files for the latest Diplomacy Games episode and was chilling to the theme song from the podcast History on Fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOr0na6mKJQ ...
27 replies
Open
Major Problems (1169 D)
07 Sep 18 UTC
finding replacement for game 34637
Due to outside circumstances, I find I am not able to continue to fully participate in the Embassy Cable game (Gobble Earth variant). The game is currently on an extend phase for another day, so if anyone is willing to take over for Mexico (solid position) please let me know so we can have the mods put you into the game. Thanks!
9 replies
Open
Enriador (1491 D (B))
05 Sep 18 UTC
[New Variant] East Indies
Hello again diplomats,

New variant coming up on vDip, taking place in a quite familiar setting for some of us.
26 replies
Open
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