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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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zultar (1241 D)
08 Jul 13 UTC
Best Diplomacy Website
Hey guys, I was wondering what your most preferred Diplomacy website?
I am playing in playdiplomacyonline website as well but honestly I prefer this one more since it is more tactical and does not punish you for making wrong clicks.. What do you guys think?
8 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
25 May 13 UTC
(+2)
New feature, very early development-stage....
Interactive map.
You can use you mouse to make give orders to your armies.
43 replies
Open
pyrhos (1268 D)
06 Jul 13 UTC
Germany 1648
We have a Germany 1648 starting in 16h somebody please join we need one more player
1 reply
Open
Anon (?? D)
06 Jul 13 UTC
WW4 gunboat starting in 24 hours - players needed
Please consider joining gameID=14993. We've got half the players, just need some more.
2 replies
Open
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
28 Jun 13 UTC
variant test time
http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=100
3 replies
Open
NigelFarage (1238 D)
03 Jul 13 UTC
Classic-Total Domination
I've created a classic-build anywhere map, with an EOG of 34 SCs (i.e., all of the SCs in the game). To play, you have to agree to certain rules (in comments) beforehand. Password is in comments.

Game link: gameID=15041
6 replies
Open
Lukas Podolski (1234 D)
02 Jul 13 UTC
Replacement needed
gameID=14661 as Turkey
not a very good position, but is not completely dead
1 reply
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
09 Jan 13 UTC
(+3)
Input of an alternate scoring system needed...
As the Dpoints are not an ideal way to represent a players game-strenght I'm thinking about implementing an alternate rating system (in addition to the traditional Dpoints)
Any math experts here?
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Devonian (1887 D)
13 Jan 13 UTC
Captain,

Of course it would have an impact on the V-rating. All games are intended to have an impact, but I would bet it is much less than what you are worrying about.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
13 Jan 13 UTC
Basically a 7 player game breaks down to 6 games 1on1 for each country.
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
13 Jan 13 UTC
Ah, sorry about that. So 1v1s would have a very small effect on this, then? Compared to Havens or KW901s, anyhow.
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
13 Jan 13 UTC
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, playing one WWIV game has the same effect as playing 35 1v1 games with each of those players with the same "results", roughly of course.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
13 Jan 13 UTC
Did a first test with a very basic algorithm. It's basically the original Elo-algorithm.
As I tried to keep it simple for a first test it just uses the final SC-count to compare the players. This is will change during the next few days, as I will add more stats so we can compare this.
The final outcome is here: http://www.vdiplomacy.com/halloffame_elo.php

Now we have something to discuss...
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
13 Jan 13 UTC
You can check the algorithm on the Wiki:
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Rating
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
13 Jan 13 UTC
I like it - I'm 17th :D I've gone up 114 places from the D-Point rank!
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
13 Jan 13 UTC
After all you've won in 30% of your games... (And drawn in 44%) and quite a lot your games had many players...
airborne (970 D)
13 Jan 13 UTC
How would we grandfather or apply a new score system?
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
13 Jan 13 UTC
Something to argue about eh? I'm not gonna argue about 7th place!! (yeah, yeah, I know it's only temporary and I fully expect it to drop considerably as my win stat is pretty poor).
Devonian (1887 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Shouldn't the criteria for each game be used instead of SC count? SC count is irrelevant a WTA game. Anything less than winning conditions, is a total failure in a WTA game.

Using SC count basically translates all games into PPSC games, even if they were played as a WTA game. The skill rating should reflect the actual game conditions.

Devonian (1887 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
I don't speak computer language. Can someone translate the algorithm?
Ironlakie (973 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
How about...
Games defeated= -1pts
Games won= 5pts
Games drawn= 3pts
Games survived= 1pts

And add them all together... the higher the person's score, the better the player...
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
Out of interest - say someone were to sign up to vDip now, what would their ELO rating be if they haven't played/finished a game yet?
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
14 Jan 13 UTC
In WTA games, it seems that the only way to do its would be that in a win, 100% of the score should go to the winner while all other players are defeated. A draw should be split 100% / (# of players drawing). Survives in WTA are as useful as defeats.

Looks like you've already got the PPSC code working, (at least as far as I can tell without coding up my own algorithm to double check, which I have no time nor inclination to do at this point.
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
14 Jan 13 UTC
its = this*
General Cool (978 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Wow, looking at the win/loss/draw/survived numbers of some of the higher ranked players, I am surprised that I'm not even on the list. Does it have something to do with the variants I play, or the number of SCs, or the type of game? I can't tell.
Devonian (1887 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Thanks Leif, I forgot about draws.

I believe that they should work the same for both PPSC and WTA, with the split divided equally between the players drawing. That is how the draws work in PPSC, right?
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
I think that it depends on who you win/draw/survive against. You get more points for survivng/drawing/winning against a higher ranked player.
fasces349 (1007 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
"No points or similar, no draws and it does not take any country-performance in account."
My biggest problem with the current algorithm is that it doesn't take draws into account.
fasces349 (1007 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
My biggest suggestion would be to just implement this alogorithm into this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/phpdiplomacytournaments/theghost-ratingslist

Its already been proven to be an effective algorithm in relation to diplomacy, with multiple (3 in their case) variants and takes into account both WTA and PPSC. I think rather then waste time trying to come up with a new algorithm, why not use one that already works?
Devonian (1887 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
General,
As far as the win/loss/draw/survived numbers, the can easily be skewed by the variant also. My win ratio is very high, but that is because I play a lot of 1v1 games. The rating system is intended to downplay this stat, since winning against 1 player is easier than winning against 7 players. (I'll still brag about it though!)
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
14 Jan 13 UTC
So, the question would then be Devonian,

Would a draw in PPSC end up being less desirable than a survive?

Consider that a 1 SC nation that someone was protecting would get an equal share of the rating adjustment while the player that fought for twice as many sc's as everyone else would get no benefit for his performance in a draw. If PPSC's goal is to grab more SC's than everyone else, why should the draw be equal under this format?

Survives should only count under PPSC, and wins are not worth anywhere near as much in PPSC as in WTA. This is my understanding of the difference between performance in the two formats, WTA and PPSC.
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
14 Jan 13 UTC
fasces,

As I understand Oli basically is working towards using something similar to the ghost-rating algorithm (which is itself based on the Chess Elo algorithm) and the current rating he is calculating is based entirely on center count in all games to date and he is working to implement code to account for draws/WTA, etc.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
1° There is a mistake on the page http://www.vdiplomacy.com/halloffame_elo.php
Indeed : the list has 200 players and the text above the list says "the 100 highest ranking players on this server. "
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2° Can someone please explain CLEARLY to me what exactly gives more points while playing one precise game ?

a) The result (Won, Drawn, Survived or Defeated) of the player in a game ?
b) The number of SCs controlled ? Whatever the result of the game ?
c) The rating of the other players in the game ?
d) The statistics of the country played ?

Something else ?

In one sentence : what should one try to achieve in a game if he wants to improve his rating ?

I personaly don't care about points but I know that most players LOVE points. So I would please like to understand the system so that I can better understand the motivations of some players in my games.
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3° By the way, has anyone thought that this new rating could possibly - and most probably will ! - pervert the play of many players ? For example, I have seen here a game (in the only 4 that I have finished here !) where several players refused to vote "Draw" and prefered instead to be defeated because a Defeat would reward them more DPoints than a Draw ! That was obviously not the spirit of a Diplomacy game, at least in my opinion !
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4° I would like to strongly suggest that another name is chosen for those points. Indeed, I used to be a tournament chess player and I know very well Elo points which :

a) are used only in two-player games !

b) are calculated by comparing a player's performance (1 per victory, 1/2 per draw, 0 per defeat ; that total divided by the number of games) with the arithmetic mean of his opponents in each game.
In other words, a player's rating depends on his opponents' ratings and the result scored against them.

c) have, as a consequence, this meaning : if the DIFFERENCE of Elo points between player A and player B is x, that means that player A should win y % of the points (and player B 100-y %, of course). The points are 1 for a won game, 1/2 for a drawn game and 0 for a defeat.
Elo points means NOTHING ELSE !

For example, if the difference of Elo points between two players is 0, then both players should expect to "score" 50 % of the points.
For example, if you have 400 Elo points more than another player, you should expect to win 90,9090... % of the points (or 10 games out of 11 if you prefer) when playing against him !

-> When I see that there are 777 D of difference between player n°1 (bozo) and player n°2 (Shep315) and that there are 133 D of difference between player n°2 (Shep315) and player n°3 (Jonnikhan), I can tell right away that such a rating has NOTHING to do with an Elo rating !

Please, don't misunderstand me : I understand that this new rating represent a lot of work and is the result of a desire of players to have an alternate rating that is supposed to represent their strength.

-> That's why I would please like to respectfully suggest that another name is given to those points.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
14 Jan 13 UTC
Correction : I shouldn't have written 777 and 133 DPoints but *"Elo" points*.
Devonian (1887 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
Leif,

"Would a draw in PPSC end up being less desirable than a survive?"
That is already an issue with the PPSC and d-point system. A draw with 16 SC's, provides fewer d-points than a survive with 16 SC's. Since the game was played under these assumptions, the skill rating should reflect the same assumptions.

Regarding the second scenario: "If PPSC's goal is to grab more SC's than everyone else, why should the draw be equal under this format?" That is not the PPSC goal. The PPSC goal is still to win; and if not able to win, to draw; and if not able to draw, to grab the most SC's. That is how the d-points are distributed. If skill points are distributed using a different assumption, then skill will not represent how the games have been played.

A player is able to get 17 SC's and is unable to get a win because of a player who has 1 SC... I think the player with 1 SC deserves more credit for stopping the 17 SC player! It is a lot easier to steam roll with 10+ SC's, but very difficult to force a draw with 1 SC.
fasces349 (1007 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
I think a draw should be split the way it is in PPSC.

If 2 players work together to stop someone from soloing, an its ends 16-10-6. Why should the 6sc guy get any less? He was equally responsible for making the draw happen and should get an equal share of the pot.

When there is a draw, it is agreed that nobody won, therefore nobody should get a higher share of the pot.
Devonian (1887 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
I agree.
fasces349 (1007 D)
14 Jan 13 UTC
@Retellion: have you just considered that Bozo is that much better then everyone else?
Bozo players mostly big maps yet he wins almost 40% of the time. He has triple the d points then anyone else, and that converted to just 777 ELO points.

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734 replies
Anon (?? D)
26 Jun 13 UTC
EUROPE 1939-GAME (bet set to 49)
gameID=14955

A nice map taking place in a very interesting time. Come and join, I hope we all are good communicators!
4 replies
Open
SandgooseXXI (1294 D)
28 Jun 13 UTC
Country switch
Just a question on this. Say I take over a game where a player is literally a year from burning to nothing and gets the defeat, is that put on my record?!
8 replies
Open
Synapse (814 D)
27 Jun 13 UTC
Sitter needed
From tomorrow until 11th July
4 replies
Open
KICEMEN17 (1075 D)
27 Jun 13 UTC
Sitter Needed June 30th-July 6th
Hello all. I'm gone on a trip from June 30th- July 6th. If anyone could watch over my account I would be very grateful. I'm in 6 games, pretty solid position in each. I hate to ask for an extend in all these games, as I see it unfair to the players. The reason I'm in many games (I've known about this trip) is because I thought where I was going had internet. This is not correct!
16 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
27 Jun 13 UTC
Seeking sitter(s) for Known World 901 anon gunboats
Friday through Monday morning. Great positions! PM if interested.

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=14585
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=14313
1 reply
Open
The Ambassador (2276 D (B))
26 Jun 13 UTC
Aussie politics
Been quiet of late...

(More below)
22 replies
Open
fadethru (1125 D)
26 Jun 13 UTC
World Wide Gunboat looking for 17 players. Quick turns. no meta....

http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=14985
http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=14984
Thanks!
0 replies
Open
Jimbozig (1179 D)
17 Jun 13 UTC
Competitive Gunboat
Looking for some experienced players who want to play WTA gunboat game. Post if interested, will select variants based on responses.
15 replies
Open
gopher27 (1606 D Mod)
24 Jun 13 UTC
Leif not a cheater as far as I know
In a now closed and locked thread Leif replied to something I said.
11 replies
Open
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
26 Jun 13 UTC
yay!
Go Rudd!
1 reply
Open
Anon (?? D)
19 Jun 13 UTC
Chaos anyone?
1 reply
Open
Utom (1227 D)
25 Jun 13 UTC
High Stakes Star
Why are all the games I am playing in marked with a High Stakes Star .. even though they are all relatively low stakes including one of 3 DPoints?
4 replies
Open
SandgooseXXI (1294 D)
24 Jun 13 UTC
How many games you playin?
The number of games Sandgoose is in...is too damn high!
23 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
25 Jun 13 UTC
WTA Gunboat gameID=14966
-buck the tiger's odds-
Fall of the American Empire, 35 D buy-in, 16 hour phases
experienced and reliable players- join up!
0 replies
Open
KICEMEN17 (1075 D)
25 Jun 13 UTC
Featured Games
Can someone explain to me why every single game I'm in is starred as a featured game? Some are like, 5 point buy ins.... Is anyone else seeing this?
3 replies
Open
Gumers (1801 D)
21 Jun 13 UTC
MODs protecting cheaters! And punishing the victim´s (ME) - revealed
76 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
23 Jun 13 UTC
Buttergoose Tournament - Urgent Announcement
A player has been banned so Iran is in CD in the Round 1 game (gameID=14592) of the tournament. in order for the tournament to progress fairly, we strongly desire a replacement for Iran. Rules to the tournament are here: thread=41653
3 replies
Open
President Eden (1588 D)
22 Jun 13 UTC
New feature proposal: No-contest voting option
In Gumers's thread I proposed a no-contest vote option, which would essentially act as a cancel which keeps games on the record for later review. Oli and/or other devs, how feasible would it be to get such a voting option?
15 replies
Open
fasces349 (1007 D)
22 Jun 13 UTC
Sitter wanted
On Monday I will be leaving on vacation and may not have internet access. I'm not doing particularly well in any of my games but if anyone wants to take over my spots for whatever reason, PM.
gameID=11622
gameID=14493
gameID=14018
0 replies
Open
Gumers (1801 D)
21 Jun 13 UTC
MODs protecting cheaters!
I cant believe this is actualy happening and I´ll wait for their answers and final decision before exposing the facts here!
9 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
21 Jun 13 UTC
EUROPE 1939-GAME WITH HIGH BET
5 out of 8 have joined now. We need 3 more to join. The bet is set to 100. COME ON NOW, join what surely will be a quality-game!

gameID=14834
0 replies
Open
Firehawk (1231 D)
19 Jun 13 UTC
1st Crusade
I need a few more testers for the second test of the first crusade map. http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=96
Thanks! :)
8 replies
Open
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