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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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zultar (1241 D)
08 Jul 13 UTC
Best Diplomacy Website
Hey guys, I was wondering what your most preferred Diplomacy website?
I am playing in playdiplomacyonline website as well but honestly I prefer this one more since it is more tactical and does not punish you for making wrong clicks.. What do you guys think?
8 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
25 May 13 UTC
(+2)
New feature, very early development-stage....
Interactive map.
You can use you mouse to make give orders to your armies.
43 replies
Open
pyrhos (1268 D)
06 Jul 13 UTC
Germany 1648
We have a Germany 1648 starting in 16h somebody please join we need one more player
1 reply
Open
Anon (?? D)
06 Jul 13 UTC
WW4 gunboat starting in 24 hours - players needed
Please consider joining gameID=14993. We've got half the players, just need some more.
2 replies
Open
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
28 Jun 13 UTC
variant test time
http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=100
3 replies
Open
NigelFarage (1238 D)
03 Jul 13 UTC
Classic-Total Domination
I've created a classic-build anywhere map, with an EOG of 34 SCs (i.e., all of the SCs in the game). To play, you have to agree to certain rules (in comments) beforehand. Password is in comments.

Game link: gameID=15041
6 replies
Open
Lukas Podolski (1234 D)
02 Jul 13 UTC
Replacement needed
gameID=14661 as Turkey
not a very good position, but is not completely dead
1 reply
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
09 Jan 13 UTC
(+3)
Input of an alternate scoring system needed...
As the Dpoints are not an ideal way to represent a players game-strenght I'm thinking about implementing an alternate rating system (in addition to the traditional Dpoints)
Any math experts here?
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Devonian (1887 D)
27 Feb 13 UTC
It seems like the biggest difference between Oli-yebellz and the Decima-Devonian systems are the variability of the input vs the variability of the output. There are other differences, but I think this is the most important.

Their system(s) have an output that changes based on skill at the end of the game, but has a constant input. Our system(s) have a variable input, based on skill at the start of the game, with a constant output.

Both have advantages and disadvantages, which brings me back to my request for multiple rating systems.

Oli (977 D Mod (P))
01 Mar 13 UTC
I made the HoF visible again.
It still does not update if a game finished, but I can now add more rating systems.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
01 Mar 13 UTC
Oli, do you find it normal that this game :

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=10660

rewards me ZERO point ?

And that, at the same time, many players (9 if I have counted correctly) who have been defeated in that same game have WON points !
Mapu (2086 D (B))
01 Mar 13 UTC
You definitely deserve points for that game no matter what the system. You dominated (and spared me thank the gods).
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
01 Mar 13 UTC
Yes.
Looks like there is an error. I will check this...
G-Man (2516 D)
01 Mar 13 UTC
Looks good Oli. Scoring for the large variants looks much better. Thanks for all the hard work!
Retillion (2304 D (B))
01 Mar 13 UTC
How about this :

1° This 15-player game, played with a 24-hour Phase and that took almost 3 months to complete, rewards 10 D to its winner (who had a rating of 1000 D had that time) :
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=9258

2° This 3-player, Gunboat, Anon, game, played with a 5-minute Phase (!), rewards 14 D to its winner (who had a rating of 1189 D had that time) :
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=12756

-> I don't know what this new rating system measures...
Retillion (2304 D (B))
01 Mar 13 UTC
(+2)
Oli, please do not misunderstand me : I thank you very much for your work but something seems wrong.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
01 Mar 13 UTC
Correction : in my last but one message I wrote the word *p o i n t s* (without the spaces)
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
01 Mar 13 UTC
I also noted (while the HoF was up) that it was topped by 1v1 and 1v1v1 players. I'm not sure if this is just how the system works but it correlates a little with what Retillion is saying.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
04 Mar 13 UTC
One more try.. :-)
It works now very similar to the DPoint system, but without points.. :-).
And please if you have more ideas post your algorithm on the wiki...My offer stands.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
04 Mar 13 UTC
Thank you for your work,Oli.

Excuse me but I come with the same question:

Do you find it normal that this game (gameID=10660) rewards me ZERO point ?

Also, why do some drawn games (for example gameID=10660) don't reward points and some other drawn games (for example gameID=10580) do reward points ?
Retillion (2304 D (B))
04 Mar 13 UTC
Correction : Also, why -- some drawn...
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
04 Mar 13 UTC
Ouch. Rounding errors.
DEFIANT (1311 D)
04 Mar 13 UTC
First thanks OLI, for all the work, I know how complicated this can be, but I have a game 10193 drawn and zero points.
Thanks for your effort, it is appreciated.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
04 Mar 13 UTC
As I said. Rounding errors. It's fixed now.
Devonian (1887 D)
04 Mar 13 UTC
Something is a little odd.

The last 2 games I won were against Guaroz, and in one I got zero pts, and the other I got 1 pt. (12791 & 12792)
- Should I have had the same for both?

The previous 2 wins were against Bozo, and I got 2 pts for one, and 1 pt for the other. (12236 & 12239)
- Same here, shouldnt they be the same?

The previous 2 games were also against Bozo, and I had a draw and a survive, where I got zero points for both games. (12237 & 12240)
- I understand the draw, buy shouldn't I have lost points for the survive?

Also, if you look through my wins, I have 35 wins with zero points, and one win with a -1 point. 35 out of 82 wins were ignored, with one win scored against me.
DEFIANT (1311 D)
04 Mar 13 UTC
thanks Oli, didn't see your post at 3:00, we posted about the same time.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
04 Mar 13 UTC
@Devonian. this where PPSC, and the SC-difference in the 2nd game was not big enough to warrant 1 point.
Same in the 2nd games. One time bozo had 11 SC, so this is much closer then 6SC.
In an WTA there would be the same results.... (And much different results too...)
RUFFHAUS 8 (2490 D)
04 Mar 13 UTC
I am stuggling to see how this system makes any sense at all in recognizing achievment in the the games we play. I realize that I'm only looking at two games here, but the difference in them is distinct yet the points awards is nearly the same.

Whatever Happened to WWIII, WW4, 35 players, result = survive (meaning someone solo'd), awards 10 D
http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=9310

Colonial Empires, Imperial Diplomacy 13 players, result = solo victory, awards 12 D
http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=11411

How is it possible that absolute an absolute failure of a loss by solo (even though the game was an absurd farse of ethical calamity ) is 10 worth points to absolute victory's 12 D? It seems clear that whatever formula being used is completely missing the point.

Devonian (1887 D)
05 Mar 13 UTC
Oli, Ok, I now understand the math that caused it, but I don't understand the reasoning behind it. Shouldn't a win in a 1v1 game be the same regardless of the PPSC or WTA scoring? The goal is to win in both cases, not to maximize SC's.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
05 Mar 13 UTC
Please everybody check again.
Found the problem with the code.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
05 Mar 13 UTC
At first sight, everything seems to make sense.
Thank you very much for all your work Oli :)
drano019 (2710 D Mod)
05 Mar 13 UTC
Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding how things work, but it seems odd that in games 2201 and 2202, I netted 0 D for a 4 way draw on Rinascimento (8 players eliminated, 4 in draw both times), whereas some of the people who were defeated didn't even lose points. Shouldn't losing pretty much always make you lose points unless the difference in rank is extremely high?

Echoing everyone else though, thanks for all the hard work Oli! We appreciate it, even if we like complaining sometimes : D
DEFIANT (1311 D)
05 Mar 13 UTC
I have a question Oli, I am trying to understand the system. Game 10193, I drew with other players and one of them was Ruffhaus and he got 12 D but I got 20 D in that WWIV game and I believe he had more SC's(don't know if that matters in a draw for the points given.)
Thanks for your time.
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
05 Mar 13 UTC
As I understand, Rinascimento isn't counted in the rankings on account of its unbalanced start.

Oli, Everything looks like it makes sense now (I haven't gone through the steps of proving it yet but it looks right!).. Thanks much for all the hard work!

I'm looking forward to the additional scoring systems and features (and no hurry, you've done amazing work and I've lent only my opinion so far. Just trying to collect all the ideas into one place!).. Post coming with a (not necessarily complete) list of what I was able to dig up skimming the thread history. Please feel free to add to it...
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
05 Mar 13 UTC
DEFIANT,

Also sc count in a draw doesn't matter, a draw is considered an equal performance regardless of SC count. Since RUFFHUAS was ranked higher than you were, the difference in score that you observe is because you received a larger score adjustment than RUFFHAUS for the draw as a result of you having performed better than expected against the field of opponents (which included RUFFHUAS). He performed better than expected as well, but didn't receive as large an adjustment because his performance was 'more expected' than yours was. Make sense?
DEFIANT (1311 D)
05 Mar 13 UTC
Leif,
Thanks, didn't know that. As you get better you are expected to perform to a certain level. That's some coding, Oli. A lot like a handicap in bowling, unfortunately it says I suck now. ;) That will soon change.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2490 D)
05 Mar 13 UTC
IT seems to me that on the topic that Defiant is discussing that the player vs. player factor is weighted far too heavily. Nevertheless, my concern is how someone can earn more points in game that they surrender a solo than in a game where they win by solo victory. Any scoring system that awards significant points for losing (what we euphemistically call "survived" here) by solo is flawed, and awarded such a result with more points than any victory has completely missed the point. Apologies Oliver. My intent is not to run you down at all. Just making some observations.
Leif_Syverson (1725 D Mod)
05 Mar 13 UTC
Ninja'd my own post.. haha!

<This is by no means comprehensive, I only skimmed 18 pages, and not well. Please add new ideas or anything you remember that I have missed.>

Features that have been mentioned:
--Sort by variant
--Sort by game type (PPSC, WTA)
--Sort by presstype (gunboat, public, full)
--Sort by anon/non-anon
--Sort by 1v1's, or non-1v1's, or game size (e.g. all 7 player variants), game family (all classic variations, all Known World games once the full suite is completed, etc.)
--Include a timestamp for game finish on the player record page (or game finish ID describing which order games finished. Since score is calculated by game finish rather than the start, the current ID for games can't be used to list one player's score changes relative to another player. The idea behind this timestamp or finish ID is so that some of us enterprising numbers junkies can compare historical scores between players through time using Excel or something.)
--Max rating achieved (mine is 1260 and better than my current 1183, which would place me 6th in the current rankings so I'm curious how it compares to everyone else's all time best) Kaner mentioned having a separate table maybe?
--Monthly or quarterly standings (who killed it in February 2013 and who tanked?)
--Option for unranked games (whether implemented by Oli, the mods, or by anyone at game creation) to allow special rules games or horribly butchered games because of abnormalities (giant CD's never filled) or obscene instances of metagaming to be removed from the rankings if needed/desired.
--Another nice feature (dunno how hard it is to code) would be to be able click a game and see the changes for every player in that game (kinda like how we see the D points changes per player currently in the game's finished pages).


On a side note, how are non-default win conditions, CD's, new players, banned players, games given away or filled after CD etc, currently handled?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other scoring systems or statistics or metrics that have been mentioned:
--Devonian's proposed scoring system (For reference, his proposal was on 1-9-2013, and is on the first page of this thread. Some recent discussion as well)
--Did Decima L. and Yebellz have separate ratings proposals as well different from the current system and Devonian's system? I haven't paid close attention to the recent discussions here on the subject.
--A side by side modification to current rating normalized based on country performance and listed as a separate statistic.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some possible metrics (NOT RANKING SYSTEMS in and of themselves, in otherwords not related to W/D/S/L, but possibly interesting statistics to track and possibly useful in other rating systems?):
--Total supply centers held across all games. This is an indicator of some form of skill (not necessarily directly correlated with ability to draw/win games), but a player who consistently controls large number of SC's is probably fairly skilled.
--Alternatively, or related to the previous metric, an average power ranking based purely on SC count at the end of games
--Average time of defeat (For instance in WTA, there is information of value in how early a player was defeated, someone consistently defeated early isn't likely a good player, but someone whose defeats are consistently much later in games has a much better chance of being around in a draw)
--Share of a draw (while meaningless in terms of game outcome) is still information that speaks to the skill of a player. Often a 1 SC player bargaining chip vs the player who was going to solo but got forced into a draw. Both ended up with the same result (and rightly so in the current ranking system), but these statistics could potentially be useful in other ranking or rating systems.

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734 replies
Anon (?? D)
26 Jun 13 UTC
EUROPE 1939-GAME (bet set to 49)
gameID=14955

A nice map taking place in a very interesting time. Come and join, I hope we all are good communicators!
4 replies
Open
SandgooseXXI (1294 D)
28 Jun 13 UTC
Country switch
Just a question on this. Say I take over a game where a player is literally a year from burning to nothing and gets the defeat, is that put on my record?!
8 replies
Open
Synapse (814 D)
27 Jun 13 UTC
Sitter needed
From tomorrow until 11th July
4 replies
Open
KICEMEN17 (1075 D)
27 Jun 13 UTC
Sitter Needed June 30th-July 6th
Hello all. I'm gone on a trip from June 30th- July 6th. If anyone could watch over my account I would be very grateful. I'm in 6 games, pretty solid position in each. I hate to ask for an extend in all these games, as I see it unfair to the players. The reason I'm in many games (I've known about this trip) is because I thought where I was going had internet. This is not correct!
16 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
27 Jun 13 UTC
Seeking sitter(s) for Known World 901 anon gunboats
Friday through Monday morning. Great positions! PM if interested.

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=14585
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=14313
1 reply
Open
The Ambassador (2276 D (B))
26 Jun 13 UTC
Aussie politics
Been quiet of late...

(More below)
22 replies
Open
fadethru (1125 D)
26 Jun 13 UTC
World Wide Gunboat looking for 17 players. Quick turns. no meta....

http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=14985
http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=14984
Thanks!
0 replies
Open
Jimbozig (1179 D)
17 Jun 13 UTC
Competitive Gunboat
Looking for some experienced players who want to play WTA gunboat game. Post if interested, will select variants based on responses.
15 replies
Open
gopher27 (1606 D Mod)
24 Jun 13 UTC
Leif not a cheater as far as I know
In a now closed and locked thread Leif replied to something I said.
11 replies
Open
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
26 Jun 13 UTC
yay!
Go Rudd!
1 reply
Open
Anon (?? D)
19 Jun 13 UTC
Chaos anyone?
1 reply
Open
Utom (1227 D)
25 Jun 13 UTC
High Stakes Star
Why are all the games I am playing in marked with a High Stakes Star .. even though they are all relatively low stakes including one of 3 DPoints?
4 replies
Open
SandgooseXXI (1294 D)
24 Jun 13 UTC
How many games you playin?
The number of games Sandgoose is in...is too damn high!
23 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
25 Jun 13 UTC
WTA Gunboat gameID=14966
-buck the tiger's odds-
Fall of the American Empire, 35 D buy-in, 16 hour phases
experienced and reliable players- join up!
0 replies
Open
KICEMEN17 (1075 D)
25 Jun 13 UTC
Featured Games
Can someone explain to me why every single game I'm in is starred as a featured game? Some are like, 5 point buy ins.... Is anyone else seeing this?
3 replies
Open
Gumers (1801 D)
21 Jun 13 UTC
MODs protecting cheaters! And punishing the victim´s (ME) - revealed
76 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
23 Jun 13 UTC
Buttergoose Tournament - Urgent Announcement
A player has been banned so Iran is in CD in the Round 1 game (gameID=14592) of the tournament. in order for the tournament to progress fairly, we strongly desire a replacement for Iran. Rules to the tournament are here: thread=41653
3 replies
Open
President Eden (1588 D)
22 Jun 13 UTC
New feature proposal: No-contest voting option
In Gumers's thread I proposed a no-contest vote option, which would essentially act as a cancel which keeps games on the record for later review. Oli and/or other devs, how feasible would it be to get such a voting option?
15 replies
Open
fasces349 (1007 D)
22 Jun 13 UTC
Sitter wanted
On Monday I will be leaving on vacation and may not have internet access. I'm not doing particularly well in any of my games but if anyone wants to take over my spots for whatever reason, PM.
gameID=11622
gameID=14493
gameID=14018
0 replies
Open
Gumers (1801 D)
21 Jun 13 UTC
MODs protecting cheaters!
I cant believe this is actualy happening and I´ll wait for their answers and final decision before exposing the facts here!
9 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
21 Jun 13 UTC
EUROPE 1939-GAME WITH HIGH BET
5 out of 8 have joined now. We need 3 more to join. The bet is set to 100. COME ON NOW, join what surely will be a quality-game!

gameID=14834
0 replies
Open
Firehawk (1231 D)
19 Jun 13 UTC
1st Crusade
I need a few more testers for the second test of the first crusade map. http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=96
Thanks! :)
8 replies
Open
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