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Holon221 (898 D)
25 Jul 12 UTC
Submitting a diplomacy variant
just wondering if on this sight I can submit some of my own diplomacy variants?
2 replies
Open
amisond (1280 D)
24 Jul 12 UTC
New Variants
Why is it that as soon as a new variant is released people instantly start playing anonymous gunboats...
3 replies
Open
amisond (1280 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
Lab test game.
Players needed for the first test game of Celtic Britain on lab: http://lab.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=170
17 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
23 Jul 12 UTC
high stakes poker - lets go - gameID=9148
join some high stakes! gameID=9148
1 reply
Open
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
(+1)
Bankroll Diplomacy
A spin off of Bourse Diplomacy where the investments made by investors effect how successful the in game nations are.
See below for rules:
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fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC

So in this one, the players and their relations to the investors may be closer, and the players (unlike in bourse) are effected by how investors choose to invest.

Players:
To play the game, you will play as one of two roles, either a government or a creditor. A government is a player who will actually play in the diplomacy game, however their role is not restricted to the actual diplomacy game, as the financing done by creditors will have an enormous impact on their ability to succeed in the game. The creditors role is simply, they are to invest in the governments with the goal of turning a profit.

Game settings:
We will most likely be playing a classic diplomacy game (possible a different map if we have two few governments singing up) with an EOG set for 1926 and every single supply center (just to guarantee that nobody solos early). In the result of a draw, the government with the most supply centers will be declared given the winner among the governments, unless stated otherwise by the players in the draw. The creditor who has made the most money at the end of the game, will be declared the winner among the creditors.

The phases will be 3 days long to give both the governments and creditors time to fund their moves as well as give orders and conduct diplomacy.

The amount of money that each creditor will start the game with will be determined based on how many people we have interested and signing up.

Upkeep and Costs:
Supply centers work just like they do in diplomacy, and each unit requires 1 supply center to be sustained, however unlike diplomacy, units also require money.

Each unit requires $20,000 to maintain (exceptions go to armies that end the year on home centers, who are free)
Each unit requires $75,000 to build

Lacking funds:
If a government lacks the money to build armies, but has the supplies, the government must waive the build. If a government lacks the funds to supply every army, but has the supplies, they must announce an army at the beginning of the year that will be underfunded. An underfunded army must enter holds for both the spring and autumn turns of the year. While the army cannot move or attack, they have the right to defend themselves and are allowed to be support held.

Financing:
In order for governments to build and maintain an army, Governments will need to have the capital to sustain their armies. Government can acquire the necessary funds using one of two methods. They can either finance the expenses through debt or equity. Debt refers to money borrowed by others, which would either be other governments or creditors who are willing to invest in their country. Equity refers to money earned by the government, which is either money gained through taxes, or money already in their possession.

Taxes:
Taxes is the only method a government has of earning money to fund their war machine, without acquiring debt. Each supply center generates revenue, however the amount depends on who held the center at the start of the game.

Home centers generate $30,000 (aka centers you began with)
Neutral centers generate $15,000 (aka centers nobody began with)
Enemy centers generate $5,000 (aka other peoples home supply centers)

At the end of the game each center generates $150,000

Debt:
By now it should be clear that it is almost impossible to build armies without borrowing money from other people. It would require 3 builds in 1901 to earn enough money to build 1 additional unit.

This means that government will rely on borrowing money in order to finance their war.

Each autumn phase governments will announce how much money they intend to borrow this year. Although there is no time which they must announce this, it is recommened that they do it within the first day, as the longer they wait, the less time the creditors will have to invest, and the less likely sufficient creditors will invest (meaning you may be unable to raise all required funds). Once the phase progresses to retreats/builds, no new purchases may be made.

Debt can be financed in one of two methods, either other governments can loan them the funds (both governments must PM me in the autumn phase) or through selling victory bonds.

Victory bonds can be purchased by creditors and provide creditors with an annual interest payment. Bonds can be acquired on either the primary or secondary market.

Primary market: The primary market is the market in which bonds are sold by governments to creditors. Each bond costs $1000, and the number of bonds being sold depends on how much money each government wants to raise, so for example if France wants to raise $10,000, 10 French Victory Bonds will be sold that turn.

After France announces how many bonds she is selling each player may make a bid on the bonds. In which they PM me how many bonds they are interested in buying, and the interest rate they are expecting to receive. In the above example, the 10 bond offers with the lowest interest rate offers, will be the ones who get them.

Because interest rates are determined based on how many people are interested in the bonds and how secure creditors feel the bonds are, generally speaking safer countries (countries doing well) will offer lower interest rates then riskier countries. It is up to the creditors to determine the balance between risky and safe bonds. Each country has the right to announce a maximum interest rate, a rate in which any offer above that amount will be rejected. The risk of doing this is it may deter creditors away to bonds that offer higher rates.

All bonds mature after 10 years, maturity is when the government must pay the bondholder the value of the bond. So for example, if France sells 10 bonds at a 10% interest. They must pay $100 a year to each bond holder (so $1000) and then after the 10 year period they must pay all bond holders $1000, (or $10,000). So in this example, France will, over a 10 year period, pay its bond holders $20,000 for the $10,000 it borrowed. While this may seem like a rip off, it is important to remember that governments that are winning the war will be generating more income later in the game.

Secondary Market: Occasionally, a creditor who purchased a bond may wish to sell this bond rather then hold it to maturity. Every spring phase (except 1901) sees a secondary market, in which creditors may choose to sell bonds they currently hold to other creditors, other creditors will receive all remaining interest payments as well as the repayment at maturity.

The advantage of trading at a secondary market is in the case of junk bonds (bonds where a country is clearly not going to pay back its creditors, most likely due to elimination) is that a player may sell the bond, and recover some of its value.

On the other hand, a player who managed to get a high interest rate on a safe bond (a bond in a country doing well), they may be able to find creditors wishing to pay more then the maturity value for the bond, and sell it then.

It is unlikely that
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
for someone reason the ending was cut off. Copy and pasted below (starting at secondary market)

Secondary Market: Occasionally, a creditor who purchased a bond may wish to sell this bond rather then hold it to maturity. Every spring phase (except 1901) sees a secondary market, in which creditors may choose to sell bonds they currently hold to other creditors, other creditors will receive all remaining interest payments as well as the repayment at maturity.

The advantage of trading at a secondary market is in the case of junk bonds (bonds where a country is clearly not going to pay back its creditors, most likely due to elimination) is that a player may sell the bond, and recover some of its value.

On the other hand, a player who managed to get a high interest rate on a safe bond (a bond in a country doing well), they may be able to find creditors wishing to pay more then the maturity value for the bond, and sell it then.

It is unlikely that much action will be seen on the secondary market, however it is still there to be used as an option.

Cheating: Given that governments must occasionally hold units or waive builds, it is possible for governments to 'cheat'. Cheating will be dealt with by the mods (myself included) in what we regard as an appropriate manner. I guess this rule could apply to most special rules games.

Other stuff:
I think that covers everything, if there are any questions or concerns about the game feel free to ask.
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
if there is any interest in the game please sign up below as well as state if you are interested in playing as a government or as a creditor
butterhead (1272 D)
25 May 12 UTC
too confusing to me, haha. I will stick to the Bourse Diplomacy. sounds like a fun idea though(if it didn't confuse me too much)
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Maybe the way I typed it out was confusing... What didn't you understand?
butterhead (1272 D)
25 May 12 UTC
pretty much I am curious what the role of the Creditors would be...
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
The creditor is exactly like the investors in bourse diplomacy. However I chose to name them creditors instead of investors because the name is more appropriate for the style of investing.

The creditor invests in countries by purchasing bonds once a year (rather then buying or selling every turn).

The money that they paid for the bond is then used by governments to build units (if not enough people invest in your country, you must waive builds, so investing heavily impacts the game), and if the government does well (aka isn't destroyed), he then pays the creditors who bought his bonds.
butterhead (1272 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Ok so, say Austria was selling 4 bonds, and I wanted to buy all 4 of them, I could potentially buy all 4 as long as I had the money to do so and bid a low enough interest rate? and then eventually Austria would pay me back with the interest, and whichever creditor has the most money at the end wins, that's basically what you said right?
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
correct. The interesting thing about bidding with interest rates, is the lower the rate, the more likely you'll get the bond, but the less money you will make off it.

Its a silent auction. Since governments only want to issue so many bonds, not all creditors will get all the bonds they want.
butterhead (1272 D)
25 May 12 UTC
I see, I see. alright I guess I will give it a try as a creditor.
orathaic (952 D)
25 May 12 UTC
can creditors raise armies in neutral supply centers? (perhaps buying out belguim and getting them to build an army.... if they can afford the cost to raise the army??)

ok, sounds like an awesome variant, i don't have time to play, but i really like it...

Also can governments withhold interest payments and default? (at the risk of not getting lent anymore money) - this might be a nice threat if the countries wanted to pressure their creditors into not lending to a more powerful enemy...
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
"Also can governments withhold interest payments and default? (at the risk of not getting lent anymore money) - this might be a nice threat if the countries wanted to pressure their creditors into not lending to a more powerful enemy... "
Actually they can, I forgot to right a bit about bankruptcy and default. Its 1 am here, so I'll do that tomorrow

"can creditors raise armies in neutral supply centers? (perhaps buying out belguim and getting them to build an army.... if they can afford the cost to raise the army??)"
Unfortunatly no, this isn't a variant of diplomacy, but a special rules game. The creditors will only decide if governments can build. (it might actually be more appropriate to play this on webdiplomacy since more people = greater chance of interest, however if we get enough people here, I'll do it here)

However creditors can influence the movements of the governments, like saying I'll lend you this much money if you move this unit here, etc.
orathaic (952 D)
25 May 12 UTC
and then once the creditor has lent the money the government can be all like, 'whatever dude, they're my freaking armies! don't make me boycott your ass!'
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
but governments have to be careful. Remember there will probably only be 5-10 investors. Piss one of them off and it may be game over for you.

(however governments with better credit ratings may choose to borrow more money and lend money to governments with worse credit ratings, so if you have allies you may get away with pissing of the investors)
orathaic (952 D)
25 May 12 UTC
i really like the 'borrowing money from allies' bit - though then a stab comes along with a likely default, right? an ally willing to lend to you (even if it means they're making a bigger profit) can't actually pay back their debts if you default, forcing them to default...

oh the insanity, why would anyone every open up their economy to such a terrible risk... poor greece... :p
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
25 May 12 UTC
I'm in, as a Government if possible.
How much do the Governments start with?
orathaic (952 D)
25 May 12 UTC
I presume each gov gets 90k per year in taxes from their home centers (and it costs them 60k to support three units. Of course if you are italy you can keep two armies in home supply centers and take tunis... Your costs are now only 20k, and your income is 90k +? 15k (for tunis)

Leaving with 85k and a possible build for 75k... (unless tunis doesn't pay taxes until the end of '02, because you only just took the center)
orathaic (952 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Fasces will correct me if i'm wrong.
amisond (1280 D)
25 May 12 UTC
How much would the bet be to join as a government?
Its a really interesting concept. I'm keen but with the phase length and upcoming holidays I'll sit the first game out. Likely participate in a subsequent game after mid July.
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
"oh the insanity, why would anyone every open up their economy to such a terrible risk... poor greece... :p "
well consider the eurozone bailouts as loans to allies, but yeah, lol

"I'm in, as a Government if possible.
How much do the Governments start with? "
Governments start with $0, this is to encourage them to borrow money.

"Fasces will correct me if i'm wrong."
Your correct, so Italy could technically go buy without borrowing money year 1.

"How much would the bet be to join as a government?"
2 D. Since this is a special rules game, I don't want to encourage cheating for the sake of points. On top of that managing finances could be a challange that many wont be up to.

Governments:
1. Captainmeme

Creditors:
1. Butterhead
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
and of course this will be a beta test of the game. We would have to play it once or twice to see if the values of costs etc. are balanced.
drano019 (2710 D Mod)
25 May 12 UTC
Imo, a major problen is going to be the 10 year maturation on bonds. In classic by 1911, typically 3 or 4 powers are eliminated akready. so by the time 1901 bonds mature, half of them are useless. This isnt even considering bonds from 1903 or 1904.
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
"Imo, a major problen is going to be the 10 year maturation on bonds. In classic by 1911, typically 3 or 4 powers are eliminated akready. so by the time 1901 bonds mature, half of them are useless. This isnt even considering bonds from 1903 or 1904."
That is true, maybe 5 years would be better, with semi-anual dividends so players can redeem more of thier potential losses
gman314 (1016 D)
25 May 12 UTC
How much money would the investors each start with?
gman314 (1016 D)
25 May 12 UTC
I also agree that 5 year bonds might be better. Or maybe, as part of the auction, players could specify the term of bond they want to sell/buy. Creditors who buy a long-term bond will want a higher interest rate because of the risk of default. However, governments might want to avoid having to pay back their bonds for a while. So, a compromise would have to be reached. I think this would add another market dynamic.
butterhead (1272 D)
25 May 12 UTC
@gman- "The amount of money that each creditor will start the game with will be determined based on how many people we have interested and signing up."
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
so gman, are you interested in playing? If so as a creditor or government?

I'd say for now lets keep it at 5 years, I am a little worried that the game is too complex as it is...
gman314 (1016 D)
25 May 12 UTC
I'm also a little concerned about complexity. This is not going to be a simple game, however we play it, simply because we're trying to simulate reality. I'm in as a government.
fasces349 (1007 D)
25 May 12 UTC
yeah, we have to find the right balance between realism and simplicity

Governments:
1. Captainmeme
2. gman314

Creditors:
1. Butterhead

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364 replies
drano019 (2710 D Mod)
23 Jul 12 UTC
New Game Type
A little while back, someone mentioned a game type with a king, assassins, knights, and traitors who all had different victory conditions. Does anyone know the game type im referring to in more detail, and if so, would anyone be interested in trying it out?
0 replies
Open
xSMTx (847 D)
29 Jun 12 UTC
Quick Question
So I'm in my, like, 4 game of colonial dip, and I am wondering why the trans- Siberian railway is present but unused. I'm hoping someone can explain this
18 replies
Open
idealist (1107 D)
22 Jul 12 UTC
a couple of new 1v1 games
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=9139
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=9140
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=9141
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=9142
0 replies
Open
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
20 Jul 12 UTC
New player needed:
5 replies
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Here's your chance to post all kinds of anon fun. gameid=9100
I guess a body has to be there too.
0 replies
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Cunnilingus (1603 D)
19 Jul 12 UTC
Spain to North africa
How is this move supposed to be made? There's no option to go by land even though they appear connected. I convoyed with a fleet waiting in western mediteranean and it failed. Is this some sort of glitch?
7 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
17 Jul 12 UTC
New feature (still in Beta...)
You can now make anon posts in the forum...
26 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
18 Jul 12 UTC
join some high stakes guys! :) gameID=9111
gogoogooo join!
21 replies
Open
A game where I am allowed to Meta-Game? O.o
Competition between you and your friends sure is fun, but sometimes its great to team up with them and conquer the world together. Well, if your looking for a game where you can do that then look no further. Sometime next week a game will be starting where you and one friend can team up to conquer the world. It will be a WWIV variant with two day phases. All that is required is that you message the creator, me, what country you are teaming up with.
60 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
18 Jul 12 UTC
Replacment needed for Sengoku
gameID=8755 5 SC position in a strong alliance, please join if you can!
0 replies
Open
RoxArt (1732 D)
18 Jul 12 UTC
gameID=9093 - high stakes karibik, join fast! :)
ole, hope this anon works
7 replies
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kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
15 May 12 UTC
(+3)
Bourse Diplomacy:
see below:
626 replies
Open
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
Sitter Required.
I'll be going on Holiday on Saturday morning for two weeks, so I'll need sitters for several games I'm in. They are all full press. Please PM me for more details.
1 reply
Open
kaner406 (2088 D Mod (B))
16 Jul 12 UTC
looking through the Variants
I have just realised that we have a lack of games of games that cater for 10+ players...
23 replies
Open
Messages in a Gunboat
I am playing in a gunboat game right now, but the little envelope has appeared on the screen signifying I have a message. However even when I click the envelope I can not see said message. Anyone have any idea, what is going on or how I can see the message?
2 replies
Open
Gary123 (1297 D)
15 Jul 12 UTC
Team Game Replacement Players
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=8536
Replacement player for the UK and Amazon needed. If someone will be nice enough, the UK isn't in a bad position. This is a team game, and you'd have to respect that, I guess.

Also is there already a thread advertising countries in civil disorder needing to be replaced? If not, should there be a forum thread just for advertising inactive countries?
2 replies
Open
Captainmeme (1400 D Mod (B))
14 Jul 12 UTC
Replacement Needed
Replacement Spain needed in gameID=8953. Not a bad position at all.
2 replies
Open
georgekatkins (1107 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
Jdip or RP files for Germany 1648
Does anybody have the files needed to implement "Germany 1648" for jDip or RP? Also heard there were jDip or RP files for "Ambition & Empire", but can't find them, either. Thanks for any help you can give me!
0 replies
Open
Lord Ravager (988 D)
11 Jul 12 UTC
Creating Teams into variant maps
Until now every Variant maps considers each player independent and able to fight any other automatically.
But could be interesting to develop a way to create forced alliance teams, just like a country split into groups unable to fight each others (being the same nation...) but able to be controlled by different players?
Into the game they could then choose if cohoperating or acting separately, but never being able to steal SCs each others nor dislodging armies and so on...
12 replies
Open
amisond (1280 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Variants Page Dead
I managed to kill the variants page here and on the lab, sorry.
5 replies
Open
Decima Legio (1987 D)
10 Jul 12 UTC
Vicky the Viking
"Those playing Vicky the Viking just cancel and join the second game. Such an early NMR really ruins the game"
This was from Kaug some days ago on the thread: http://www.vdiplomacy.com/forum.php?threadID=28853#28853.
6 replies
Open
fasces349 (1007 D)
12 Jul 12 UTC
(+1)
orders in WW4
See below

12 replies
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Tyran (1335 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
I need two partners for a world team game. gameID=8986
I need two partners. One would be playing Egypt. The other Kenya possibly.
5 replies
Open
Tyran (1335 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Live game anyone?
Anyone wanna play?
0 replies
Open
Tyran (1335 D)
12 Jul 12 UTC
Live game anyone?
Anyone up for a live game? Any amount of players even a 1v1
4 replies
Open
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