Small change, big difference. If a clipper is dislodged in the Pirates variant it can only retreat to an adjacent territory. It does no longer move two places when retreating. This is meant to simulate the clipper being defeated and being damaged it can't sail as far in the retreat phase.

Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Devonian (1868 D)
29 Jun 15 UTC
(+12)
1v1 Tournament Rules, Rankings, and Challenges
Official Rules for 1v1 Ladder Tournament
1363 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1596 D (B) (B))
20 Mar 17 UTC
Fixing the Pirates variant
With the new Lab up and running, as discussed in the DiplomacyGames podcast I'm keen to iron out the bugs in Pirates that people hate...
34 replies
Open
butterhead (975 D)
21 May 12 UTC
(+10)
Advertise your NON-live games here!
In an effort to compromise the pro-ads versus anti-ads for games: Post here for your non-live games to cut down on the number of ads but still advertise games. Post game link, WTA or PPSC, and the bet. Note: this doesn't count for special rules games.
2127 replies
Open
Jamie_T (895 D)
Wed 04 Oct UTC
(+4)
MAFIA 1 - GAME THREAD
This is the game thread for vDip Mafia, Episode 1

Please DO NOT post in this thread if you are not playing in the Mafia game.
1498 replies
Open
Known World Tournament
Awhile back, kaner proposed a Known World gunboat tournament in which 15 participants would play 15 games, one with each nation. I searched back for the thread, then just decided to start a new one. I want to see if there would be sufficient interest in this to try to get it off the ground.
418 replies
Open
Flame (0 D)
Thu 05 Oct UTC
(+1)
Classic 1898 Variant adaptation
I do the adaptation for 1898 variant. Who knows the author of the variant to mention him in the description. Or it's Hasbro itself?

http://lab.diplomail.ru/board.php?gameID=43
6 replies
Open
Tactics
In year one when you just meeting everyone, maybe there anonymous but for sure you don't know any of them. How do you know who to trust?
They can be lying through their teeth and text doesn't show tone of voice or eye contact so you have no idea. If you believe them they may stab you. If you don't you venture into a DMZ and piss them off. Ask around to others and you get rumors or nothing. This game seems so much better suited to face to face.
13 replies
Open
RUFFHAUS 8 (2501 D)
Fri 05 PM UTC
(+1)
Replacement Player(s) Needed
I need replacement players game sitters for several games:
2 replies
Open
Dr. Recommended (1180 D Mod (B))
24 Dec 16 UTC
(+2)
Variant Tournaments
I've really enjoyed playing variant-specific tournaments such as the Known World 15x15 currently underway.
594 replies
Open
Enriador (1374 D)
Tue 17 Oct UTC
Classic Mini-Tourney - Is there interest?
I thought about making a mini-tourney - comprising a single game - using a similar scheme to most Face-to-Face scoring systems.

Basically it'll be a Classic game, running until Fall 1907 and a PPSC structure. The bet would be 100 points - for a ultimate pot worth 700 points.
26 replies
Open
BobRoss (1653 D)
31 Aug 17 UTC
(+2)
Variant Tournaments Results & Ranking
As the Variant Tournament thread was getting clogged i thought it'd be a good idea to separate the organisational and ranking part.
14 replies
Open
Grahamso1 (981 D)
Fri 13 Oct UTC
Unable to enter certain orders. How to contact GM
Can someone help. I am playing one of the odder variants. New for me. I’ve read the variant page repeatedly and seems I ought to be able to enter a certain order. But it’s not available as an option. (Maybe I’m missing something. Or maybe a bug). Emailed the mods. But how do I contact GameMaster min a gunboat game?
Thanks
2 replies
Open
Enriador (1374 D)
Mon 09 Oct UTC
Napoleonic Variant, and the lack of neutral centers
I had the honor to play 'Napoleonic' back in the lab (an awful game as Spain by the way). I had a question back then which I ask here and now:

Why there are no neutral supply centers?
21 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1596 D (B) (B))
Mon 09 Oct UTC
(+5)
I love vDip
Enjoying this new golden age of variant development.

Hat tip to Oli and those building variants and supporting their development in the background.
5 replies
Open
gman314 (1016 D)
12 Mar 11 UTC
(+16)
Winning
Oli won.
On Imperial Civilization's off-topic thread (link inside), there was a brief stint of Second to Last Person to Post Wins. Now that the thread is closed, Oli won.
6241 replies
Open
FafevPlinskv (918 D)
Tue 10 Oct UTC
Taking over
Need help with a gunboat game, good position but sadly don't have time for it for a moment. PM for more details
0 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1596 D (B) (B))
02 Sep 16 UTC
(+6)
New podcast for online Dip games
Hi everyone

Kaner and I have started a podcast about playing Diplomacy online....
132 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1596 D (B) (B))
Sun 08 Oct UTC
Napoleonic
Hey, where are the neutrals?

;-)
0 replies
Open
DemonOverlord (939 D)
Sat 07 Oct UTC
Vdip colour scheme
Hi, I think vdip would be more successful with a different colour scheme. Also less painful to look at.
10 replies
Open
Jamie_T (895 D)
10 Sep 17 UTC
vDiplomacy Forum Mafia
Would anyone be interested in playing forum based Mafia / Werewolf here, on the vDip forum?
154 replies
Open
Enriador (1374 D)
Wed 04 Oct UTC
Reliability system
I looked over Google but couldn't find any topic explaining the reliability system - can anyone hand out an example, and explain how noobs are handled? Thanks a lot in advance!
10 replies
Open
nopunin10did (1011 D)
30 May 17 UTC
1900 for vDip: Progress Report (ongoing)
As mentioned in another thread, I've been working on the code and assets necessary to port Baron M. Powell's variant 1900 to vDip and/or webDip.

In order to keep myself accountable in some fashion to actually complete this task, and not just talk about it, I've created a small project plan where I can mark my progress.
26 replies
Open
nopunin10did (1011 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
Win Conditions less than majority
Some of you with a bit more experience at vDip can clue me in here.

How does vDip currently adjudicate when more than one player meets the SC requirement for victory simultaneously? More details below.
38 replies
Open
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
Balkans 1860 variant
Is it just me, or is Italy way too overpowered?
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
The only ones who could do something to stop Italy early are Austria and Greece, but Italy can easily block them and they have a lot of trouble with their closer neighbours...
Strider (1162 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
I'd agree but all edge countries look that way depending on others starts. Both Austria and Greece need to watchout for italy and should. Italy has a very gentle start with neighbours and ready access to neutrals more than any other country.
BobRoss (1653 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
Though experience in multiple games might change my perspective, for the time being i completely agree with you GOD.

Austria and Greece together could possibly block/limit the growth of Italy but that doesn't take into account the role of Serbia. If Serbia turns against either of them, that whole approach will fail. I'd consider the necessity for 2 empires to go against Italy at the start of the game quite enough reason to call italy too overpowered. I feel that it would also be extremely difficult to eliminate Italy once he gets a hold of all the neutrals in and around his empire.
This is something I'm looking at and considering. Also, a related question, do Austria and Serbia have a viable path to work together? All the gunboat games may be making this seem worse than it is (Italy's strengths are magnified in gunboat) but the variant may still need a tweak or two.

Options I'm considering, trying to maintain historical accuracy:

- impassable Rome (secured by a French Garrison 1860-1870)
- de-escalate Greek/Ottoman border somehow (increases Greek likelihood of moving on Palermo, which does not happen as often as intended in 1860)
- redraw/increase space between Serbia/Austria

Open to other suggestions as well/thoughts on how to implement the above. I do see at least one or two games going on right now where Austria and Serbia are successfully working together so that's encouraging at least. A few tweaks might still be a good idea though.
Also a question - why does Italy attack Austria so often? I expected them to embrace a naval power role more often, and try to control the southern seas, but instead IS v A seems very common. This has undesirable consequences for the Ottomans as well, and I'd like to fix that too if I make changes
BobRoss (1653 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
I do think that several viable paths for Austria and Serbia are limited due to Beograd and perhaps that most Italian (both original and neutral SC's are on the Western flank of the Italian peninsula). In any case, any expansion east is going to require a great deal of trust from the Serbian player as it will seemingly always mean Austrian troops marching alongside main sc's of Serbia. Though these are all things that could be compensated with diplomacy in full press games.

Gunboat on the other hand, makes it extremely tricky. Currently running in 1 game but we almost have enough sign ups for the 7x7 Gunboat tournament for this variant. I think it would be great to see the developments and results of that tournament, as there are some great strategists on board who will play around with the possibilities for this variant within gunboat.

In any case, i'm really happy to see a new variant having been added, Ben. Up till this point I do not have enough games of reference to give more precise improvements but the Italy 'issue' seems to be the most obvious for now.

GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
The French Garrison sounds really nice! I wouldn't make it impassable though, rather put a neutral army into it, so that two units are needed to take Rome.
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
As to the Serbia thing: how about merging Graz and Wien to give Austria better options on Italy, and/or put a neutral territory between Sarajevo and Agram?
BobRoss (1653 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
I like your proposal for the French Garrison (the neutral army). The Graz and Wien merger could work as well as it would indeed make it easier for Austria to position himself against Italy. Though I wouldn't add the Neutral territory between Sarajevo and Agram as well. With the other changes the balance would already be more even, with Italy not having the same early growth potential as it has now. The neutral territory between Sarajevo and Agram would make it more difficult to go for the surprise strike on Austria by Serbia.
baky123 (1139 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
A garrison in Roma would be a good idea as currently it is a free SC for Italy and noone else can get it. That way if Italy wants to get it they will have to stall their advance for perhaps a year. It gives other countries a chance to grab SCs.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2501 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
The neutral garrison in Rome really doesn't solve the problem. Italy has plenty of time to press the map advantage with Austria, and a luxury of time to deal with securing neutral Rome. If Rome is impassible it' only forces Italy to press the present advantages against Austria even more.

I agree there's a very likely advantage here, but lets make better observations after a battery of play testing to evaluate the entire picture. The reality is that we're looking at this issue in a vacuum right now. It's not just Italy and Austria affected by altering things.

Another thing to consider is that diplomacy can solve problems like this. If Italy is acting the bully in, it should be recognized and addressed by nation other than Austria. this is something that would be much easier to identify to the rest of the map in press games.
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
Yes you are right, but the garrison would add an interesting aspect IMO.
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
(from a historic point of view)
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
Also, two more points I'd like to have clarified (in the variant description):

- do standard rules apply concerning builds? (I guess they do, but its always nice to know)

- what about the two land bridges (?) in Greece and Turkey? Looking at the map info (http://vdiplomacy.com/edit.php?variantID=103) I guess that you intended to show that armies can move on these territories, which is all right.
My problem here is, that fleets can move from the Marmara Sea both to the Thermaic Gulf and the Bosporus directly, while movement from Gulf o. Taranto to Saronic Gulf is not possible, although at first sight I would have assumed that the same rules apply for both land bridges.
Also, there is no indication at all that fleets can go from Bosporus to Marmara without a stop in Istanbul.

As many players either don't know the map info option, or just don't bother to always look into it (myself included), it would be nice to have these aspects both visually better represented on the map (add landbridge in Istanbul, take it away from Greece and just connect Athens to the adjacent territories the way it looks in the large map) or just put them into the variant description, as they are pretty important to know.
GOD (1701 D Mod (B))
23 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
That being said, I am really grateful to Ben for the map and really like playing it, just trying to contribute :)
DogsRule11 (1080 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
I'm currently Italy in a game, and I agree that Italy is overpowered. Greece seems underpowered, as their only guaranteed SC is Heraklion, and they have to support themselves in, and any aggresion from the Ottomans will probably end them. Just my two cents.
mouse (1725 D)
24 Sep 17 UTC
To GOD's landbridges issues - it would appear the intent of the Athens 'landbridge' is to indicate that it's a channel province? Agreed the graphics are slightly confusing as to whether Gulf of Taranto and Saronic Gulf are adjacent.

You can, however, see that Bosporus is adjacent to Sea of Marmara by the slight extension of the SoM sea-zone past the actual site of the Bosporus strait.
DogsRule - and yet the Ottomans have the worst success rate thus far in testing...

Also, standard builds yes, and the Dipwiki link explains the bridges in more detail.

I like the idea of creating space between Austria and Serbia. Rome still up in the air. Putting an Italian home SC that reaches Adriatic shores is good too.
...as this creates more vulnerability to Serbian fleets. If I had to point to one thing that concerns me most of all about the variant, it is that Austria and Serbia don't seem to choose to attack Italy together very often, nor have they been very effective when they do try. Whatever individual tweaks happen, that is the end state that needs to be achieved. A second order effect of this would be that the Greek position is also strengthened in the long term, so we must consider the impact on the Ottoman position as well, who already have a poor success rate in this variant. If the Greeks only can guarantee Heraklion, consider that the Ottomans can only guarantee Salonika...and Salonika is a much more difficult territory to hold.

So, another idea (regarding Italy):

- split the territory known as Agram into territories that correspond to the historical Kingdom of Croatia and Kingdom of Slovenia (both A-H territories in 1860.) One of which (Zagreb presumably) might even be a fourth Austrian starting SC. This would certainly only be done along with creating more space between the Austrian and Serbian home SCs. (split Beograd province into two)
(perhaps a three way split of Agram - Zagreb, Osijek, and Ragusa/Dubrovnik - the last of which has a fascinating history as an independent maritime republic similar to Venezia herself)
side note: this Romania/Bulgaria/Greece triple (gunboat no less!) going on in Orient Express-2 is absolutely fascinating, and shaping my design decisions about the variant. Really do need to see more playtests before I make any changes to the map (though I do agree the Italy position in particular needs some, and that changes there will require other changes to maintain balance.)
BobRoss (1653 D)
27 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Hi Ben!

Our Balkans 7x7 tournament has recently started and I explicitly asked all participants to inform you about possible/necessary changes to the variant. We're at a too early stage to provide anything worthwhile, but these 7 gunboat games could serve as a good test run as all participants will have a go at this variant with each playable empire.

We'll keep you posted!
RUFFHAUS 8 (2501 D)
27 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Let's all keep in mind that what's looks great as an opening does not always translate to the rest of the game. Italy looked overpowered at first but many things can change that very quickly. The main reason for concern is that this new Balkans 1860 variant incites conflict from the first season. There's no racing out for safe neutrals here, which is probably a very helpful exercise for us. I'm interested to see what kind of results occur in press games also since Balkans really puts you on your toes with every move.
BobRoss (1653 D)
27 Sep 17 UTC
Completely agree with that, Ruff.

I'm already enjoying this variant a lot because in case of most empires, there are 3 to 4 empires that one could clash with in the first year already. Every move here could have a direct consequence in terms of alliances. With so many opening possibilities, a large sample would be needed to really draw any worthwhile conclusions
I think this variant is going to give me my second heart attack! Yeesh! But I am enjoying the challenge of the ever shifting dynamics, especially in gunboat.
Hey Ben. I know you need input and all, but let's not affect gameplay by discussing the ongoing gunboat here in the forum. K? Thanks!
BobRoss (1653 D)
27 Sep 17 UTC
Thank you for that reminder, YCHTT!

Remarks about the variant in general are allowed, but no discussion on any of our 7 games until they are finished ;-)
That applies to the independent games like Orient Express II as well.
okay, no problem.
current thoughts on the state of the variant then (of course pending the outcome of at least the tournament, also other games I'm spectating):

- Ancona becomes an Italian home SC, Naples goes Neutral (Naples and Palermo were still the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies) and this should pull Italy strongly south. Some sea zone redraws to put (new) starting unit F Firenze within reach of Naples and Palermo in the first year.

- create space between Austria and Serbia (split Agram and Budapest provinces into two separate spaces each.)

- wild card: it is entirely historically inaccurate to have Rumelia Eyalet not exist in 1860. To that end (and to offset the inherent strengthening of the Greek position that comes with nerfing Italy) Bitola should become an Ottoman home SC (renamed Monastir) Examining the impact on Bulgaria though. Should balance out with Greek gains from the Italy changes, but I don't want Bulgaria to feel obliged to bounce in Serres every game.
tinker map

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2CiokzfWGBhQ2k2b1AwRWVfZk0/view?usp=sharing
kaner406 (1515 D Mod (B) (B))
27 Sep 17 UTC
Out of interest, what happened in 1860 in the Balkans that made you choose to make the variant in that time and place?
BenjaminHester (1027 D)
28 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
Oh, so very much - it was a fascinating time. The nationalist awakening of the early 19th century was bearing fruit and sweeping away the old monarchies. The scattered Italian states became a unified nation during the Risorgimento and the campaigns of Giuseppe Garibaldi. The decaying Ottoman empire, like a receding glacier, left isolated religious and ethnic pockets across the Balkans, which were flash points for conflicts then - and now. Likewise, the Austrians abandoned Joseph II's futile attempts to forge a unified state out of the numerous and fiercely independent peoples that comprised the Habsburg holdings. This wise approach allowed them another hundred years of relative prosperity while their ancient rivals (the Ottomans) crumbled. Meanwhile the Greeks entertained (and nearly realized!) the fantastic dream of recreating their vast empires of antiquity, despite overwhelming Ottoman military superiority. The long subjugated Serbs, Bulgarians, and Romanians threw off the chains of centuries of foreign occupation and rule. (slightly anachronistic here - most of these were not truly independent until the 1870s, but I have tried to capture the spirit of these early nationalist uprisings even before they won their independence.) It was one of the most fascinating and chaotic times of history (not unlike Sengoku :-) and lends itself readily to adaptation for Diplomacy.
I failed to address it above, but the proposed Graz+Wien merger is a good idea that is also being considered. So add that to the list.
or make Salzburg a fourth Austrian starting SC...
Technostar (1293 D)
29 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
From what I see in the Gunboat tourney, Austria's growth potential is fairly good as it is, though they don't have nearly as much potential against Italy. I would recommend the Graz + Wien merger over a 4th SC in Salzburg.
can't speak on the gunboat tourney as it's ongoing, but regarding the map design alone, my one concern with the Graz-Wien merger is that it puts Wien adjacent to Agram, with the undesirable effect of pulling Austria (even more strongly) south into conflict with Serbia. if the goal is to nerf Italy, we have to find ways to make A/S a more viable alliance. Graz-Wien merger closes the Austrian gap to gain Salzburg, which is good, but drawing Austria south is not.

of course, if we proceed with Ottoman SC Bitola(Monastir) then Serbia themselves will have one more thing in the south to worry about (losing Tirana, which is a frequent target for F Cetinje)
Mikey99 (2040 D)
02 Oct 17 UTC
(+1)
Bulgaria is pretty vulnerable. Romania really does need to hit him early and Bulgaria is also steadfastly in Ottoman's way. Both are edge powers and Bulgaria starts in the middle of just about everyone.
BenjaminHester (1027 D)
Mon 02 Oct UTC
Hi Mikey - hm. I thought I had offset this well enough with the potential for good first-year gains relative to the other positions (well, except Italy, as discussed above.) Both elsewhere and here, lots of Bulgarian players seem to be doing well thus far, particularly when they're able to cut a deal with the Ottomans, but also sometimes in opposition to them too. I'll have to see the results of the current batch of games before tinkering with Bulgaria. They're definitely my Balkans1860 equivalent of Austria in Standard, but I think that position at least is pretty well balanced, and in most playtests thus far, their performance has supported that assessment. If I strengthen the Ottomans too much in revisions though, the impact on Bulgaria will certainly have to be considered.


39 replies
peterlund (1106 D)
30 Sep 17 UTC
I have reported 2 Issues for vdiplomacy to kestasjk/webDiplomacy
Bug 1: "Turn limited vDip games should end after possible retreats" (Issue 261)

Bug/Questions 2; "How does vDip decide who the winner is?" (Issue 262)
11 replies
Open
brainbomb (681 D)
01 Oct 17 UTC
Variance
Varients my style Skippin paddy wagon rattle dash colum mile Flyin off the handle and I dial Clone pile vna for my DNA Rabid as a rattler in a CNA gettin paid like the Destin Pa Handle this festive kudza On a fish. Get you lil bliss Gimme smooch. Im a wish.
4 replies
Open
Flame (0 D)
28 Sep 17 UTC
Habelya variant bug?
In Habelya-variant: Fleet from Bay of Holgii can support move S.Holgii (Sc) from Holgian Sea.
Is it bug or normal situation?
6 replies
Open
Anyone else have hobbies outside of Diplomacy or gaming in general?
I am into model railroading as well as fine scale modeling (military), and balsa & tissue aircraft building. What are you all into?
52 replies
Open
Argentinean Empire (955 D)
27 Apr 17 UTC
(+3)
Word Association Thread
Hello! I saw a thread like this on WebDip. We start with a word, and you then post the one word that pops into your mind after you read that word. The first word is FIRST.
838 replies
Open
Major Problems (1188 D)
23 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Live game anyone?
If anyone likes live games (gunboat, anon) let's see if we can get one going. Only an hour to sign up!
2 replies
Open
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