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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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The Ambassador (1678 D (B) (B))
02 Sep 16 UTC
(+4)
New podcast for online Dip games
Hi everyone

Kaner and I have started a podcast about playing Diplomacy online....
77 replies
Open
Mitomon (920 D)
Mon 17 Apr UTC
Diplomacy: Is Germany Too Weak?
I noticed that Germany is considerably weaker in Diplomacy than it's historical counterpart. In game, Germany can very easily be knocked out by England and France. However, historically Germany was able to fight competently on three separate fronts. Does anybody feel that Germany is a little misrepresented in game?
More importantly, are there any variants that address this?
40 replies
Open
gman314 (1016 D)
12 Mar 11 UTC
(+16)
Winning
Oli won.
On Imperial Civilization's off-topic thread (link inside), there was a brief stint of Second to Last Person to Post Wins. Now that the thread is closed, Oli won.
5992 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1678 D (B) (B))
20 Mar 17 UTC
Fixing the Pirates variant
With the new Lab up and running, as discussed in the DiplomacyGames podcast I'm keen to iron out the bugs in Pirates that people hate...
31 replies
Open
butterhead (961 D)
21 May 12 UTC
(+9)
Advertise your NON-live games here!
In an effort to compromise the pro-ads versus anti-ads for games: Post here for your non-live games to cut down on the number of ads but still advertise games. Post game link, WTA or PPSC, and the bet. Note: this doesn't count for special rules games.
1907 replies
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Variant Tournaments
I've really enjoyed playing variant-specific tournaments such as the Known World 15x15 currently underway.
245 replies
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Strider (1113 D)
Mon 07 PM UTC
(+1)
Anzac Day remembrance
Waking for this Anzac Days dawn service reminds me why we should not forget WWI. With threats of agression again escalating has nothing been learnt!
3 replies
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Mitomon (920 D)
Mon 17 Apr UTC
What is your favorite board game?
I heard you guys like to play Risk.
48 replies
Open
kaner406 (1388 D (B) (B))
24 Sep 16 UTC
(+3)
I've been Boursed!!! 2016
Hi all, when Amby and I were recording our recent podcast (diplomacygames.com) the topic of Bourse came up, and I got really excited and thought that I would try to get another game of this variant running...
150 replies
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Devonian (1824 D)
29 Jun 15 UTC
(+9)
1v1 Tournament Rules, Rankings, and Challenges
Official Rules for 1v1 Ladder Tournament
1154 replies
Open
Known World Tournament
Awhile back, kaner proposed a Known World gunboat tournament in which 15 participants would play 15 games, one with each nation. I searched back for the thread, then just decided to start a new one. I want to see if there would be sufficient interest in this to try to get it off the ground.
312 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1678 D (B) (B))
Wed 19 Apr UTC
Feedback for 1v1 Cold War on WWIV map
Hi folks, some of you may have heard me talk on the podcast about bringing the WWIV map to a Cold War circa 1984 1v1 variant. Interested in your thoughts about whether I use the standard WWIV map, the v6.2 version (is there any actual difference in the map itself?) or whether the sealane version would be better. Thoughts?
17 replies
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The Problem Thread
This thread is if you have a problem you post and then everyone will try to help you with your problem.
57 replies
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Happy Rome Day
since today (April 21) is Rome's 2770th birthday, I thought it would be nice to fill this thread with stories of the glory of Rome:
5 replies
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Captainmeme (1591 D Mod (B))
Sat 22 Apr UTC
(+2)
Reminder: ALWAYS check the settings of games you join!
Hi all,
1 reply
Open
The Muting Thread
This is the thread that everyone mutes.
9 replies
Open
Captainmeme (1591 D Mod (B))
01 Apr 17 UTC
(+4)
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ON VDIPLOMACY'S FUTURE
Please see within for details on the vDiplomacy Referendum.
66 replies
Open
GOD (1694 D Mod (B))
28 Jan 16 UTC
(+1)
Can't stop the Trump
Does anyone here has a clue as to why Donald Trump is boycotting the latest republican debate? Seems to have only downsides and risks without a real gain to me. Enlighten me please.
296 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
Sun 09 Apr UTC
KING OF GUNBOAT
gameID=30786 2 day phases 100pt bet WTA Anon gunboat
2 replies
Open
Matticus13 (1241 D)
Sat 15 Apr UTC
Seeking replacement for Shift Right variant game
http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=30376#gamePanel

Looking for a replacement for Italy (me). The current position is pretty stable. I'm looking to eliminate all of my press games due to time constraints.
4 replies
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Greetings Thread
Um....................... Hello? Is anyone there?
37 replies
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The Ambassador (1678 D (B) (B))
08 Mar 17 UTC
Live video feed podcast?
Hi folks - Kaner and I are getting together this time next week for another boozy Dip chat.
27 replies
Open
Captainmeme (1591 D Mod (B))
Tue 11 Apr UTC
The Original Diplomacy Variant
As many of you know, the Calhamer estate is being liquidated and the very first self-published Diplomacy board sold for just over $5000 last week. Well, something else interesting from the same sale - a bunch of prototype maps, these likely being from several years before the game was published.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262922746919
21 replies
Open
fasces349 (1052 D)
26 Dec 10 UTC
(+16)
Advertise live games here
Like in webdiplo, this thread will be used to help people find live games
3598 replies
Open
David E. Cohen (0 D)
29 Mar 17 UTC
Calhamer Estate Sale
See below.
30 replies
Open
kaner406 (1388 D (B) (B))
03 Apr 17 UTC
Sitter needed!!
For 7 days, ongoing bourse game. 1 SC power, 3 day phases, no bourse orders needed, only a hotbod to look after the unit on the board. PM me or reply on this thread. Thanks!
1 reply
Open
MerlijnvL (994 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Hallo
Hallo
31 replies
Open
didigoose (1690 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
Hof Points Question
I have 2 questions related to the Hof point calculation

didigoose (1690 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
#1 My username shows that i have 1690 D while the Hof shows i have 1693 D. If i look at the last game it shows i got from 1693 -> 1728. Doesn't really add up all together. Is there a reason for the differences?

Also the list of my games doesn't show the last games:
http://vdiplomacy.net/hof.php?userID=4661

#2 When i look at the result i really wonder why Phil1986 only lost 2 D? Unfortunately i didn't find an explanation on how the points are calculated. I'd be quite interested to know more about the mechanics.
Devonian (1824 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
V-Dip points - Discussion thread and explanation:

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/forum.php?threadID=59573&page-thread=1#threadPager

V-Dip point scoring detail:
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/hof.php?gameID=xxxxx

More Discussion
http://vdiplomacy.com/forum.php?viewthread=61279#61279
Devonian (1824 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
Those are some of the threads I found. If anyone knows of others please let me know.
Captainmeme (1591 D Mod (B))
13 Mar 17 UTC
There seem to be some serious problems with the HOF points. I tried getting the server to recalculate them and it ran into an error at some point...
Yeah, I'd guess so. According to my profile, I'm 97th but I don't show on the HoF despite having a higher score than the bottom few.
didigoose (1690 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
thx for all those links. stupid question but there is no search for this forum or how did you find them?
didigoose (1690 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
I didn't really find a proper description just a reference to a URL that actually doesn't work anymore:
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Rating
Devonian (1824 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
This question comes up so often, I copied them and posted them on my profile page. That way I don't have to search for them again.
Devonian (1824 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
Yeah, unfortunately I can't find the full description anymore.
Decima Legio (2009 D)
14 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
I've found the original V-points creation discussion. 4 years ago.
didigoose, if you have the patience to read through 700 posts, you'll now (almost) everything about the V-points system.

threadID=38097

Devonian, please take note of this when someone will ask questions again :-)
Devonian (1824 D)
14 Mar 17 UTC
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

I have been looking for that thread a long time.
Decima Legio (2009 D)
14 Mar 17 UTC
You're welcome, Devonian.
Now, like then I think that the pairwise method of splitting a multiplayer game was a bad choice.
Before that this system was put in place I raised numerous concerns about players behaviour that by a matter of fact revealed to be well-founded.
Now, like then, I think that your ancient proposal similar to webdip Ghost Rating should've been a better way to approach a rating system for this particular website.

Unfortunately Oli persisted with his formula.
Regardless of this, if we’re meant to have somehow a measure of skill, the current system is way better than the old one… and I don’t get why the D-point system is still around.
I think it is so embedded in the code it might be difficult to remove. But I don't know as Perl/PHP is the one more common language I don't code in (Java, JavaScript, C# and the other .Net languages, but not Perl/PHP).
Damn tournaments. Samj just won a FoW torunament game from FoW 1 that knocked me back off the HoF. And I didn't even get a screenshot cause the HoF page is busted.
mouse (1415 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
Something weird is definitely happening - at some point in the last day or so (apparently before the 1st FoW 2 game completed this morning) every game I'd completed since mid-Jan stopped showing on my hof page and are not counted to the displayed v-rank.
didigoose (1690 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
Thanks Decima Legio! I am gonna take a week off to study it :)
tantrumizer (1787 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
Yes, that has happened to me too mouse.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2502 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
Putin hacked into the VDip HOF
Na. It was Hillary.
didigoose (1690 D)
30 Mar 17 UTC
After reading the 25 pages i can summarize the following
#1 Oli left the old point system in place to keep rewarding people when they win/draw a game. In the ELO system it could be you actually don't get any points as although you won the game you performed below expectation

#2 @decimalegio, what kind of negative behavior do you see as a result of the ELO?

#3 My biggest riddle still is the mV value. I don't know how we get to it.

In this game http://vdiplomacy.net/hof.php?gameID=27297 phil1986 has an mV of 1%
the best explanation i can come up with after reading the 25 pages is that he it is because he joined the game later?
drano019 (1967 D)
30 Mar 17 UTC
Any idea whatever happened to the games that appear to have disappeared of the HOF rankings?
tantrumizer (1787 D)
30 Mar 17 UTC
I noticed a recalculation of all the historical points took place (possibly because I'd mentioned an error in a game from a while back, possibly for some other reason). My guess is a game that finished early this year crashed the process, and so then a bunch of games from the subsequent months weren't counted. Once my score got recalculated with the next game ending, I went down almost 300 D, but it is still excluding those missing months (when I had a hot streak (now ended)). My guess is someone will be able to figure out why it crashed and a recalculation can occur again. I also imagine it won't happen all that quickly.
MrClean (1071 D)
30 Mar 17 UTC
Does anyone know why my points have dropped ~100 ?
tantrumizer (1787 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Probably for the same reason mine dropped (see above). One or more of your nice results is not included now.
DogsRule11 (1269 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Happened to me too. I lost 37 D from a drawn game.
Decima Legio (2009 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
didigoose, very briefly:

#1
Oli left the D-point system because it is inherent within the Webdiplomacy platform code.
As far as I remember, the Elo (not capital letters or the Chess player Retillion will have a stroke) system was designed by Oli in such a way that win and draws do not result in a V-points drop. If this didn't happen, it is due to non-standard conditions: altered victory conditions, civil disorders, bugs...

#2
"top" players tend to be afraid of losing V-points / position in the HoF.
Because of this they tend to play only in elite clubs more than before. Either way, they opt for Unrated as a "conditio sine qua non" for their participation to standard games/tournaments.
"bottom/average" players tend to tear down "top" players in order to get more V-points in reward when the game is over.
This regarding to players that care about ratings. I note this as a difference of behavior among V-points and the old D-points.
Regarding to players that do not care about ratings, there is obviously no difference of behavior.

#3
I can't recall how the match Value coefficients (mV) are calculated. It's a number between 0 and 1 depending on the relative SC count of the couple of players.
I think that also the WTA/PPSC setting also factors on mV.
mV is reduced when one of the players did take over.
MrClean (1071 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Sounds Greek to me. Wish we could have a consistent system. Changing the rules halfway through the game isn't very fair.
zurn (884 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
I wonder if a ELO points decay has ever been considered. This is used in other online competitive communities, partly to combat effects like Decima's point #2, and to encourage play. A separate "all-time high" list could be maintained to look on past glory, while primarily maintaining a current ELO list.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2502 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
I don;t think that you consider a points decay feature until you address the issues that arise in #2 in the first place. No one wants to play every game they enter with a bounty on their head. And the reality is that players have been targeting the top ranked players. This is why cypeg stopped playing. Yes, there's a vanity aspect to it, but the core issue is the problems with the ELO formula that create institutional headhunting. Once that is fixed, it would be okay to decay points from inactive players. Another idea would be to base the ELO on games within in a certain period say 12-months or 48 months. At the end of the day though any scoring system needs to be focused on rewarding player performance rather than tearing down others. Strength of opposition is a valuable factor to consider, but we need a way the doesn't penalize as much when top players get pigpiled for points.
Captainmeme (1591 D Mod (B))
31 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Anon games fix #2...
zurn (884 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Both good points.

In non-anon games, I don't think targeting the players with better records is ever going to completely go away, though. You can always look at the player stats, and even if you hid that, you can still potentially learn the reputations of the players. Realities of a multi-player game where cooperation is everything.
zurn (884 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Perhaps point-gains can be lowered to moderate the effect. I've heard of some pretty large point gains recently, seemed a little out of kilter compared to other ELO systems I've looked at.
Decima Legio (2009 D)
31 Mar 17 UTC
Hi zurn,
did you experience some other Elo-based ranking systems in other sites ( applied to diplomacy is intended ) from where we could learn and ultimately improve ours?
zurn (884 D)
01 Apr 17 UTC
Don't know much about other Diplomacy rating methods, although I did read this, http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=565&t=34913 , the PlayDip Elo FAQ. (I haven't played there much so I have no feel for how good or bad the ELO ratings seem.)

One thing they mention that I didn't like, which is the possibility of draws lowering your rating. I think if you draw or win, you should at minimum get 0 D. Although potentially losing points might force high-rated players to play for a better result, it probably also dissuades them from joining a game in the first place. It's not a perfect solution though, since the possibility of being eliminated by a group of much lower-rated players also weighs heavily if you really care about your high rating.

Not sure how it works in vDip, I should probably have a look at the code... or does anybody know the vDip rating equation?
zurn (884 D)
01 Apr 17 UTC
Uh, I didn't mean zero betting money there, I meant zero points; I guess the forum code automatically changed it.
Why shouldn't a draw between two low rated players and a high rated player cost the big guy points? Clearly, he didn't play up to his potential. It shouldn't cost as much as a loss, but it should cost something.
zurn (884 D)
01 Apr 17 UTC
Because then he won't want to bother playing at all, is the main reason, if even a good result doesn't reward him.

Some more food for thought: http://www.stabbeurfou.org/docs/articles/en/DP_S1998R_Diplomacys_New_Rating_System.html

I have a hunch that you shouldn't simply linearly increase the rewards as the number of players goes up, due to the "chaos" of having more and more players. Not sure if anyone *does* increase it linearly though, but it would be the simplest thing.
Then no different than chess. Do you honestly think Bobby Fischer would have played just anyone?
mouse (1415 D)
01 Apr 17 UTC
You can see (with very little explanation, though most of it is self explanatory) the v point calculations for a game through the Hall of Fame. Easiest way I've found to navigate to your own listing is go to your profile then edit the url, replacing 'profile' with 'hof'.

By the looks of it, it's impossible for you to lose points in a draw. It's basically 1-(expected win prob. vs defeated foes) x (players in draw and leaver consideration) x (dependent on number of players). You're not compared to the people you drew with, just given a proportional amount of what you'd've gotten for beating everyone else.
RUFFHAUS 8 (2502 D)
01 Apr 17 UTC
"Anon games fix #2..."

Yeah, if only all games were anonymous... #2 not fixed.

I enjoy playing non-anon with vDip friends though. Perhaps the fix is to not allow non-anon to be rated games.
zurn (884 D)
01 Apr 17 UTC
Nice trick mouse, that shows a lot. So from some quick digging:

Winning Known World 901 (15 players): ~ +500
5-way Draw Knowing World: ~ +50
3-way Draw Knowing World: ~ +100
Losing Known World: ~ -40
Winning Atlantic Colonies (4 players): ~ +20
Winning First Crusade (7 players): ~ +100

Obviously these could vary a lot depend on other player skill, and I only glanced at a few games. But that win number for Known World is huge. Yes it's a map of 15 players, but it's not like the winner eliminated 14 players. He beat his neighbours, then a few more neighbours, then got half the board. Meanwhile, other players were being beaten by yet other players throughout the game. Is it worth 5 times as many points as a win in a 7 player game? Seem like there's a factor that blows up with big games.
But the same could be said of WTA points in the same game.


43 replies
zurn (884 D)
28 Mar 17 UTC
Minor map issues
Is anybody able to make minor cosmetic map changes to the variants, for readability? There's two small things I've noticed:

* Imperial Diplomacy II: there's a connection between Morocco and W. Med, but the map really doesn't show it.
* First Crusade: The Sardinia supply centre in the large map is placed in an odd, almost invisible spot.
0 replies
Open
Oztra (937 D)
18 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
WebDip members on here
Hi Guys,
just wondering how many people that are from webdip come over here and do stuffs
26 replies
Open
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